She of the Snaky Skirt & Creepy Mr. Kellum

This Week on Wonderlust:

Welcome back Wonderers! In today’s adventure, we explore the supernatural/paranormal with the tales of La Llorona and childhood imaginary friends.

Inspired by local New Mexican ghost stories, Sarah takes a deep dive into the well-known spooky tale of La Llorona. Dating back to pre-hispanic and Aztec times, Sarah examines the murky history and different versions of spectral Weeping Woman in Latinx culture. We also examine the eery similarities to tragic tales in Hebrew and Greek Mythology. But we can’t talk about La Llorona without discussing some ghostly encounters with her! Also, check out Instagram for a particularly spooky video!

Emily then takes us on a fascinating and equally creepy adventure into the chilling world of imaginary friends– particularly the imaginary friends who seem to be more paranormal than imaginary. She starts off strong with the shiver-inducing story of the ‘imaginary friend’ Mr. Kellum. Mr. Kellum befriends a three-year-old, and may or may not be the ghost of a long dead neighbor. We also discuss the general creepiness of kids and their imaginary friends(ghostly origins or not), in addition to the developmental benefits having an imaginary friend has for young children.

Thanks so much for listening to our rambles & wonderings! If you like what you hear, please take a moment to rate & subscribe. Also be sure to keep an eye out on social media!

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Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hi sister. Hello, love that. Creepy boys.
Speaker 1 00:00:06 My throat just made a weird noise too. So I don’t know. I heard that actually. Good.
Speaker 1 00:00:25 Yay. It’s lovely to see you. I am good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s been a great day. It’s been very sunny. Lots of motorists out on the road today. So hello to all the motorists. Hey guys. Hey people driving out with their convertibles and their tops down. Really? Really living it up. You know,
Speaker 0 00:00:49 Convertibles. They’re really doing that there. Yeah. Yeah. Sun’s out. Oh yeah. I don’t know. I always, for some reason, I don’t know why I’m surprised. I just picture that as like a Florida thing.
Speaker 1 00:01:00 I don’t know. I saw a few today and I was just here.
Speaker 0 00:01:04 Fancy, quiet. Yeah, guys. So welcome to the pod.
Speaker 1 00:01:11 Welcome. Welcome.
Speaker 0 00:01:14 I’m Sarah.
Speaker 1 00:01:17 Yeah. Mentally.
Speaker 0 00:01:25 I wish you guys could have seen her face. Cause it was the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen.
Speaker 1 00:01:31 You know, I thought of a few comparisons as to like what that face was, but I’m not going to tell you because
Speaker 0 00:01:36 It was like a baby bird getting ready to accept food from their mother’s mouth. And I like,
Speaker 1 00:01:42 I was thinking like anyways,
Speaker 0 00:01:44 No, no, no, no. And I have to say it. No, please. Oh,
Speaker 1 00:01:49 Like, like eating a raw egg. You. Yeah. That’s why I said no.
Speaker 0 00:01:56 Can you say salmonella knows
Speaker 1 00:01:59 That though? Don’t they? I know they
Speaker 0 00:02:01 Don’t, I don’t know how they risk it. It’s really irritating. I don’t know. But yeah, guys, welcome to the podcast where we take deep dives and everything from the unexplained to the unexpected and the unknown. We love everything from the super weird to the supernatural. And today we have some fun news for you guys. Are you ready?
Speaker 1 00:02:35 But I’m building it up a lot, but I just,
Speaker 0 00:02:40 Emily is putting her musical theater education too.
Speaker 1 00:02:43 Oh God. Got it. You know, if you don’t use it, you lose it folks. Yeah. That’s very true. So tell us,
Speaker 0 00:02:56 So we are the, and my sister texted me at like 11 o’clock at night, my time on a school night school. And I was like, okay, we can talk. But only for a few minutes, um, spoiler alert, we talked for two hours. Yay. But while we were talking, uh, we came up with this really great idea of sister subjects, sister subjects.
Speaker 1 00:03:26 Yes, we are deciding that it’s, you know, we were thinking what’s a, what’s a great way to shake it up every week for everybody. And um, you know, we wanted to give out subjects each week. So now moving forward, we’re going to have a sister subject of the week and we will, and we will, um, tell you at the end of each episode, what to, what to expect next week and what’s going to be coming up. So this week, our premier sister subject episode from a brilliant idea from, uh, from mine two o’clock in the morning mind, I mean, you, it was like, what 12 your time, right?
Speaker 0 00:04:09 Yeah, it was, I was up until like one something from
Speaker 1 00:04:12 Our late-night brains and shenanigans. We bring you sister subjects. I’m sorry. I just cracked my knuckles. But um, this week subject is,
Speaker 0 00:04:26 Oh, I was doing a drum roll. And then you were waiting for me to speak, uh,
Speaker 1 00:04:33 What’s the Sikh subject. Sarah
Speaker 0 00:04:36 Paranormal in supernatural.
Speaker 1 00:04:41 Yes.
Speaker 1 00:04:46 That was spooky certified. Spooky.
Speaker 0 00:04:52 The theme is spooky. We’ll just say that.
Speaker 1 00:04:54 Yes. Um, um, I feel like that’s my theme in the life. That’s that’s how I,
Speaker 0 00:04:59 Yeah. Okay. So I was going to bring this up today. You know, everybody talks about having a love for spooky season, but really spooky is just a way of life. And that’s how I like to live my life. It’s a lifestyle spookily. So I am, I am spookily. Nope. I am spooky all year round. You
Speaker 1 00:05:22 Really are.
Speaker 0 00:05:25 I don’t know if I should take that as compliment or not. I mean
Speaker 1 00:05:27 Here, you know?
Speaker 0 00:05:30 Oh my God. Speaking of something spooky. Oh, sorry. What were you going to say?
Speaker 1 00:05:36 Speak S I w I was going to be like painting bones and skulls and
Speaker 0 00:05:39 Stuff. You keep outing me. You
Speaker 1 00:05:42 That’d yourself. You’re she spooky around guys?
Speaker 0 00:05:45 Actually, my friend did send me a picture of a daddy Guana and he was like, you could probably use those bones. And I was like, get the skull.
Speaker 1 00:05:53 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:05:58 Okay. So, uh, so speaking of spooky, uh, we all know that I moved into a new house, uh, about a month ago, month and a
Speaker 1 00:06:06 Half ago now. Oh,
Speaker 0 00:06:09 Um, it’s not going to lie. It’s the best little house. It’s like my favorite place to be. Uh, it’s very cozy, very homey. It’s. I mean, I’m an introvert, so I love being at home anyways, but like this house is just wonderful. Um, but I have been doing more, a lot more meditations, uh, in general, you know, stressy adult life. Yay. Yay. Um, but also I did look on Amazon for a Wiki board.
Speaker 1 00:06:49 Oh, I love that. I want one to tell me you find a cute one.
Speaker 0 00:06:54 I will. Um, fun fact. I was actually thinking about making my own, designing my own. So that’s a
Speaker 1 00:07:01 Great idea, girl,
Speaker 0 00:07:04 A wanderlust podcast. We did Lord
Speaker 1 00:07:07 Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun, dun dun,
Speaker 0 00:07:12 Stay tuned. Um, Tony, as I was looking at that kind of stuff. And, but I’ve also noticed when I meditate more, I tend to have more of those experiences. Uh, like I was meditating a lot around the 10 of grading died and like, I remember waking up because I’d hear knocks on my bedroom door and nobody would be there. Or I would hear somebody calling my name. Um, so I started meditating more just for stress also. Yeah. Meditation is great guys. I’m going to do it as a subject someday because it’s amazing. And I can’t. Yeah, I can’t. Um, so, but I’ve been doing more meditation for myself in general, but also with that in mind, if Yahtzee has started, uh, staring at random things and there’s nothing there for like 30 seconds, he wants,
Speaker 1 00:08:06 I think that that’s related, but, and they’re also, there could be animals in the house or bugs or something that he hears.
Speaker 0 00:08:13 So he I’ve seen him freak out over flies and stuff. In other bugs, he generally tries to chase down
Speaker 1 00:08:19 If there’s like a lizard or like a mouse in the wall.
Speaker 0 00:08:22 Yeah. He will generally go over there to try and investigate. However, the last couple of times he’s literally just been like one time, this fucking lunatic was sitting on his hind legs, a little paws up just like staring behind me with his eyes while he was your wide for like 30 seconds. I was like, I mean, that’s unnerving. Of course, of course he started doing that. When I express interest, I feel like it’s like the universe being like, Hey, I use this, that you were interested. This is what that me, but it’s okay. I just thought it was funny. I’m actually scared because this house is the best. But yeah, I thought that was super interesting. It is the best,
Speaker 3 00:09:05 I mean, so is this one, but this one’s hot.
Speaker 0 00:09:08 I mean, that’s true.
Speaker 3 00:09:10 Why give stuff to like, you know, I’m not saying that your house is hearted, but like this house, I’m just like, I, I’m not going to say it’s not like, Oh, it’s for sure. Haunting. I think it’s, it just has a couple of, um, echoes leftover, you know,
Speaker 0 00:09:28 Bra. Okay. So I was listening to that podcast. I was telling you about, keep it weird, hashtag shout out. Um, and you’re welcome. They had a medium on one of their episodes and she was talking about, you know, like having three different, like, uh, bodies, where you have like your physical body, then you have your spiritual body, your spirit, then you have your emotional body. And she said that that’s where she thinks hot things come from is the leftover emotions. And it might not be connected to the actual like spirit, spirit part of you, which I thought was super interesting. That is very interesting. And it’s also a little reassuring cause then hopefully you’re not stuck in the ether forever because of strong emotions. Maybe you’re just, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 00:10:20 Yeah. It always makes me think of fringe that episode with the, uh, apartment building and, you know, in one universe it was like a married couple and I’m wanting universe, you know, the wife, the boss, the husband, and the other universe, the husband had lost the wife or they missed each other so much that they were like pulling apart the fabric of the universe.
Speaker 0 00:10:41 Yeah, no, exactly. That’s kinda what it made me. I mean, I didn’t think of that exact episode, but that’s the general thought process that I had with that too. Um, which I thought was super interesting. Cause so then like, I feel like it’s possible. I think that might be where like the residual hauntings might come from, or even if it’s not a specific entity, it’s, you know, there’s a lot of strong feelings in a place because of an emotional body leftover, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 00:11:09 Yeah. It’s always very, yeah, yeah. You know, we just don’t know. It’s like crazy to me because you know, you have all these theories out there for like demons, demons and other bad things, you know, but it’s also like, we really have no idea, you know, when there’s like reports of hauntings where there’s like just this like spectral being of negative energy and like all of this weird stuff, it’s like, you really, yeah. You can call it whatever you want, but you really, we really have no idea what that is. And
Speaker 0 00:11:40 Well, on the other hand, it’s like, when people talk about negative energy, I’m sure there’s also negative energy out there. But then other times I wonder like how much of it is your own projective negative energy because you don’t because it’s unknown. You know what I mean? Or if it’s like,
Speaker 3 00:11:54 You know, you’re in a place that like,
Speaker 0 00:11:58 I don’t know, I say that, but something bad happened in that weeding house though. There was definitely bad energy there.
Speaker 3 00:12:04 Kind of what I’m saying is like, you know, there’s a difference. And also we can’t really say what it is. It’s just like, uh, there, it was something bad. You know what I mean? Like it didn’t, it wasn’t good. No good vibes. No good vibes. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:12:17 Yeah. So welcome to the pod, everybody. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:12:22 No good. No good. No good pods. LOL. No good vibes. I can’t talk.
Speaker 0 00:12:28 You’re welcome. All right. Would you, um, would you like to hear and what I am going to talk about,
Speaker 3 00:12:36 I am dying to hear what you’re going to talk about.
Speaker 0 00:12:40 Okay. I said that really loud. Um, so I want you to picture this. Okay. You are brand new family. Um, you know, you take your baby home. Baby starts growing all cute and adorable. And your, you know, your house, you guys are feeling that new baby. I’m imagining I want this to be good, baby five. It’s not like I’m going to lose my fucking mind. Cause I just had a baby and it’s a lot. We’re going to imagine sweet baby vibes, kill a little baby. Learn how to walk. Now you’re in your house. You guys are, you know, you’re having a lot of family time and it’s great. Right? And then after some time, when child has grown up a little bit, you start, glimpsing a shadow in the toddler’s room, in the corner, you know, just in the background, in this tiny baby’s room. So, and then not only that, you know, you don’t want to dismiss it, but then you hear the distant sound of weeping.
Speaker 3 00:13:56 Shut up, Sarah. I swear, what are you talking about?
Speaker 0 00:14:02 So then you’re like, well, fuck, I don’t want to put my child to sleep in this place. So I’m going to do what most people do in this situation and call a priest, right? And the priest comes and blesses the home and does his thing. Right? But the, uh, the situation just keeps progressing, right? Doors start moving chairs, start moving and you start seeing a more physical form in your house. You also capture this form. I’m a baby camera in the toddler room, moving the blankets in their crib. So as a mom, you see this thing standing over your kid and touching it and you see it’s moving the blankets at night. You’re like, the fuck is going on. So you start to panic. And you’re like, I don’t know what that was. I don’t know. I don’t want to, I want to make sure that my kids okay. So I want to go check to make sure that nothing is wrong. Like what if this did something to my kid? Like they will talk about worst nightmare, by the way. Like that would be terrifying. So you bring your toddler to the doctor, right?
Speaker 0 00:15:24 And when you’re at the doctor, you discover the child had an unknown medical condition that if it had gone untreated, your baby would have died. So they treat the condition, get it under wraps and all of a sudden the manifestations
Speaker 1 00:15:46 And your house is fine. Again, was this story
Speaker 0 00:15:53 Of LA Yorona
Speaker 1 00:15:57 What’s what’s
Speaker 0 00:16:00 Okay. I’m so glad you asked. Um,
Speaker 1 00:16:06 I’m like literally on the edge of my seat. Right?
Speaker 0 00:16:08 I know. I love it. I really love how you’re like into my storytelling. It makes me so happy. I know. So Oh, by the way, that was a true story account of somebody’s encounter with
Speaker 1 00:16:21 Angel of death. No.
Speaker 0 00:16:23 Um, and I will link to the article, um, on the episode page on our website. So is called the weeping woman and she is part of a, you know, she’s a ghost spirit of, uh, the Southwest United States and Mexico and central America. Um, folklore, right? There are two versions of this story, that birth, the spirit of and the first one is there’s this wonderful, cute little, little lady named Maria. And she marries a man and has two kids. One day, she sees her husband with another woman and she freaks out and drowns her kids in the river. And she drowns herself and is condemned to an afterlife of searching for them.
Speaker 1 00:17:18 Oh my God. Yes. Why is she she’s why is she searching for them? She put them in the river. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:17:25 Well it’s probably that she was condemned for killing them. So she separated from them forever. Right? So there’s actually, I don’t, I don’t know if I said there’s two different versions. There’s multiple different versions. Okay. Another version that I found was that her children are illegitimate and the father of the children threatens to take the children away from her to be raised with his new wife. So she drowns them in the river and then kills herself. Okay. as a thing for rivers. Yes. There’s a very big tide of bodies of water with her. You know, the other version that I found that was kind of sad was those aren’t sad enough. No, no, no. This one’s even worse. You know, this lady and her husband have a bunch of children, but they’re poor and they can’t afford to feed them. So the children start disappearing and the wife doesn’t know why she gives birth to her fourth child.
Speaker 0 00:18:25 And she sneaks off to find her husband throwing the newborn baby in the river. So she jumps in after her newborn baby to try and save them. And they both drowned. Yes. Happy times. I’m surprised you haven’t heard of this, although it is more in this region of the U S slash world then. Cause I don’t remember hearing it on the East coast at all. Never heard of this. Yeah. Shout out to my friend, Diana, who, uh, got me super interested in this. Um, and she’s native to New Mexico. So I think that’s why it’s a big thing. So a lot of people think that she is scary. She is often portrayed as being vengeful and seizing others, other people’s children to drown in place of her own. Um, yes.
Speaker 1 00:19:21 How has that, that scary.
Speaker 0 00:19:24 I said scary. Scary. Yeah. Some people also see her as a death omen, which is interesting. And I’m going to get more into that because there was a lot of interesting stuff about that.
Speaker 1 00:19:38 Yeah. Well that’s what I thought when you were telling the story. Cause I’m like, sounds like the angel of death. Like she’s like saying like, Hey, you’re about to be mine. Like yeah, that’s creepy.
Speaker 0 00:19:50 And then in folk war, and especially with Hispanic families, the, the, the tail is used to scare children to make sure they come home before it gets dark.
Speaker 1 00:20:00 Yeah. That sounds like things. Some parents do,
Speaker 0 00:20:03 Hey, don’t stay out too later. Now Yorona is going to come get you, you know? Oh my God. All right. So this folk tale dates all the way back to pre Hispanic origins. So like it has roots in Aztec culture. Hmm. So LA Yorona right. Tales, you know, illuminating or alluding to the liar, Rona it, they date all the way back to pre Hispanic culture, like pre invasion, conquest, all that fun stuff all the way back to the Aztecs. Right? Wow. Um, there are two, sometimes three Aztec goddesses that now Yona is associated with. Okay. One of them is, I’m not going to say it cause I’m gonna butcher it. I’m gonna try it. See you at coat coat bull snake woman is when it’s translates to right. Um, they say that she’s a Savage and evil woman dressed in white and an omen of war according to history Uh, this is what I got from the article. It says this God has, could also be linked with the sixth of the 10 omens that are recorded in the codex as having four told the conquest, I E like omens, foretelling, the Spanish coming and destroying the Aztec empire. Wow. Which is the voice of a woman heard wailing at night crying about the fate of her children.
Speaker 4 00:21:42 I mean, that’s like the screaming banshee. Yeah, exactly. Very similar. It’s just like, you know, that, that, that thought it’s, it’s interesting. Cause I’m pretty sure she visits people that are like sick or dying. I don’t know. Don’t quote me on that.
Speaker 0 00:21:56 Yeah. So in the 15 hundreds, the late 15 hundreds, there was this Dominican friar who went over to the Mexico area and uh, his name was Diego Duran and he wrote, uh, the history of the Indies of new Spain, which is really cool because he actually fucking took the time to write down these stories. The Aztecs had, he was ostracized and criticized during his life for helping the quote unquote havens to maintain their culture. Right. So he says in his book that now Yorona is associated with Cote Lukey or she of the snaky skirt, which by the way, do not like, be my name all the time. She is a sneaky skirt. Yup. Wow. It’s not a great name.
Speaker 4 00:22:56 That’s an, it’s an interesting name. It’s a name for sure. Like, you’re not gonna forget that you walk in and you’re like, hi, I’m she of the snaky skirt
Speaker 0 00:23:05 Me. Like what? Yeah, girl,
Speaker 4 00:23:07 You are like, Oh, well we’ll okay. Right. I was, I was wondering, I saw the snaky skirt and I thought, wow.
Speaker 0 00:23:16 Yep, exactly. It’s Xi. So according to our good friend, Diego, he said that she looks like something straight out of hell. She’s the ugliest and dirtiest thing that you can imagine. Um, she is waiting for her son to return from home from war. And while she’s mourning his absence, uh, you know, she’s wailing and weeping and doing all that stuff. So all that stuff, doing all that sad snaky stuff. Oh my God. Yeah. So that’s, that’s another possible Avenue of inspiration for that you don’t know, right? Yeah. The last one who could possibly be the same goddess as the previous one, I’m not going to try and pronounce it, but yes I am. I don’t know. I’m saying this chow. We flipped coop. I’m sorry everybody. I should’ve looked it up. I don’t know why I didn’t
Speaker 1 00:24:24 Are these as tech. Yes. Goddesses.
Speaker 0 00:24:29 Uh, her name means the Jade skirted one. So I’m looking all these fancy scares with these ladies
Speaker 1 00:24:36 Skirt names. Yes. Their names are influenced by fashion,
Speaker 0 00:24:40 Which, you know, can’t fault them because I am also often influenced by fashion.
Speaker 2 00:24:49 Are we off?
Speaker 0 00:24:50 Uh, yeah. Um, so she is for sure. Known as the Aztec goddess of water and bodies of water. Your favorite? Um, Oh yes. Yes. She is the goddess associated with rivers, seas, stream storms, baptism, fertility and childbirth. Okay. Last a phobia. Yep. Exactly. She’s young girl for it. For Emily. Emily should get together with her. Maybe
Speaker 1 00:25:19 Singer a siren song. Hey, go,
Speaker 0 00:25:25 Oh my God. That was the best thing I’ve ever bought.
Speaker 2 00:25:32 Even
Speaker 0 00:25:32 Gave me a profile of you, of that shot.
Speaker 1 00:25:42 Well, you know, that’s what she has to look forward to. All right.
Speaker 0 00:25:47 She’s a lucky lady. Let me tell ya it doesn’t
Speaker 1 00:25:49 She just doesn’t. She just,
Speaker 0 00:25:52 So the tech got us water, uh, is said to have drowned people and overturned boats. So I eat when people drown or boats overturned, they’re like, damn that goddess of the water and shake their fist at her. Um, guys, it’s not really her fault. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:26:13 Yeah. Guys, calm down.
Speaker 0 00:26:14 Come on. It’s called weather.
Speaker 1 00:26:18 Yeah. Well, they didn’t know about that. Right?
Speaker 0 00:26:23 Whether everybody has known about weather for a while now,
Speaker 1 00:26:27 What, but when, what are you talking?
Speaker 0 00:26:29 I mean, it was a long time ago, but they knew about weather.
Speaker 1 00:26:32 Well, I mean they knew like water dripped down from the sky, but you know
Speaker 0 00:26:38 Sure.
Speaker 2 00:26:43 So she has specific
Speaker 0 00:26:44 Rituals, um, dedicated to honoring her. She has ones associated with fertility and childbirth and also, uh, there’s ceremonies where they, you know, honor her and hopes of getting, you know, good crops and a lot of rain and stuff like that. And so they do these rituals and sometimes these rituals also involved human sacrifice.
Speaker 4 00:27:10 Oh, love that. Love that. Yeah. It’s
Speaker 0 00:27:12 Possible that the human sacrifices could have been children too. Oh my God. Yes. Not great. But that could be where the child killing aspect of this story, you know, came into play. Right? Yeah. Obviously there’s a lot of parallels for this specter. Right. I mean, even when we think about just like, I’m just thinking about like all the ghosts shows that we’ve watched and how many times they’re like the crying woman in white.
Speaker 4 00:27:43 It’s always, yeah. That’s what I’m saying. I’ve heard this like narrative before,
Speaker 0 00:27:47 Or even if it’s not, you know, a mother, Oh, the, the weeping bride, it’s still a woman in white. That’s weeping. Pretty similar.
Speaker 4 00:27:56 Yeah. It’s a common like paranormal trope, you know.
Speaker 0 00:28:01 Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It’s just, it’s very common. So there’s obvious parallels between this Phantom crying woman and other Phantoms, uh, specifically in Iberian and Hebrew mythology. Uh, there were some things mentioned about even Lilith, you know, that whole like, Oh, she was the first wife, but she didn’t please him. So she was cast out and the whole jealousy and 50th grimness, you know what I mean? Even if there’s not, this is Oh. And he made it so that she couldn’t have kids. That’s why all of his children are demons kind of thing.
Speaker 4 00:28:40 So I could see that. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:28:42 Exactly. There’s definitely these, these parallels. Um, one of the ones that I found that was the most, like it is good, old Greek mythology, you know, guys, if you ever want to look up a fucked up story, just go ahead and look up some Greek mythology because it’s really, truly all you need. Like just
Speaker 4 00:29:00 A boatload of trauma.
Speaker 0 00:29:03 The parallels are with the tale of Lamea who went, did not know. Oh yeah. Oh, you did. Okay. Okay. So, um, you know, in true Greek mythology fashion, right? Zeus of course has an affair with a woman like he did with fucking everybody, like Jesus Christ, man. Keep it in your pants. So he has an affair with this woman and they have a litter of kids. What it’s true is that lighting outside. I was just that because he has an affair
Speaker 4 00:29:34 And that was pretty terrible. Uh,
Speaker 0 00:29:36 What’s the lady with the snakes, Medusa,
Speaker 4 00:29:38 MedU. I don’t even want, I thought that’s where you were going a second. No, that’s another one though. Yeah, it’s terrible.
Speaker 0 00:29:44 Uh, instead of killing him, they kill all of his wife and or them Hara kills off his wife and children, you know, like it’s a common thing. Like Zeus, just fucking stop. Just keep it in your pants, get a flashlight. Like something that not leave. You just said those words. It’s okay. I can bleep it.
Speaker 4 00:30:05 Oh my God. No, that just, you know, that, I feel like that’s a, that’s a very interesting suggestion to offer,
Speaker 0 00:30:14 Do something so that your wife get a divorce. Does that help in Greek mythology?
Speaker 4 00:30:22 And I’m not really sure about their, their bureaucratic law practices. So I’m really, even if they are married, cause he’s clearly just sleeping with everybody. It’s like a soap opera. It’s like, Oh yeah. It’s like a gods and goddesses soap opera. It’s like Gilligan’s Island in the sky with superpowers. I would watch that show.
Speaker 0 00:30:44 I’m not going to lie. That sounds very interesting to
Speaker 4 00:30:46 Me. I think it would be, uh, of the vibe of like written and produced by Shonda Rhimes. You know, that level of just like, you want to see what’s happening, but also it’s like painful to watch because it really gets into your brain
Speaker 0 00:31:00 Like think about how much rage everybody would have towards these. I would have, I mean, maybe the dudes wouldn’t cause he gets to go have sex with everybody, I guess. But like he just causes so much hurt and pain and destruction by having affairs with all these women. And instead of him getting punished for it by his wife, she goes and kills them and turns them into monsters, you know, whatever, all that fun stuff, whatever, whatever tickles her fancy that day, who knows. Um, so, uh, yeah, Zeus has an affair with Lamea right. They have a bunch of kids, uh, Hara learns of this and instead of slapping the shit out of her husband, she goes to Lamea and kills all of their children
Speaker 4 00:31:45 Sounds like a reasonable, um, reaction to be,
Speaker 0 00:31:48 Right? Yeah. I’m so enraged and grief stricken. Lamea decides that she’s going to start taking and killing other women’s children, which I’ll be honest. Like this is something that I have a problem with in Greek mythology in general is like turning women victims into monsters. Yeah. Uh, like Medusa, for example, for those who have now. Yeah. Just real quick segue to goo, um, into, you know, like Medusa. So fucking Zeus raped her. And instead of Hara having any mercy on her and acknowledging her as a victim, she turns her into a hideous monster who kills anybody that she looks at. Yeah. Um, Hara, arguably it’s turned into a who, you know, punishes everybody and is mean and hateful bitch and these mythologies, which like at this point, like girl, just get rid of him. He’s not worth it.
Speaker 4 00:32:52 I mean, it’s just, you know, it feels, it feels like, um, like it was written by a man.
Speaker 0 00:32:59 I was going to say it’s Def, it’s really a parent that all of this stuff was, uh, imagined and created by men. Yeah. Lamia instead of, you know, I don’t know a sad story. She turns into a monster who takes other people’s children and kills them.
Speaker 4 00:33:16 I mean, naturally, what else would she possibly do? How else could she go on?
Speaker 0 00:33:23 It just, it kills me and then unrelated, but related to what we were talking about. So with Leia Rona and these tropes in mythology that we can see across the world, right? Again, history I really had fun going through their articles. They had some good stuff. Um, they say the trope of the bar Bain girl who kills her children after being betrayed by her lover and discarded for a woman of higher status or more appropriate race, quote unquote has roots in the Greek tradition, uh, in the legend of Medea and Jason, which is definitely a thing. But like, so this, this trope goes way back and all over the fucking world. And especially that trope in particular is particularly poignant. When we talk about the origins coming from the Aztec culture and then how that plays into, um, the culture as, as the area progressed through the conquest, because initially what had happened was the Spaniards were like, we’re conquering everybody.
Speaker 0 00:34:34 So we get to fuck whoever we want and take whoever we want is our lovers, right? Because men can do that shit. But then once it started becoming more quote unquote civilized in these areas and more women from Spain would come over and they had more pure blood, you know what I mean, quote unquote, or were of the proper stature, these women who were abused and taken or, you know, born into this culture that had previously the, like having what’s called a mid seed. So where they’re mixed between the Spaniards and the indigenous people of Mexico. Right. Um, so previously, because they were mixed, they had slightly higher status because they’re half white and it’s not great guys. Um, but as these women from Spain kept coming in, um, their status meant less and less than they were getting replaced. So this idea of this barbarian girl who kills her children after being betrayed by her lover and discarded by a woman for a woman of higher status is very important to that region because that literally fucking happened all over in that area specifically. Yes. Repeatedly and like, whew, like, uh, yes. So anyways, that’s, that’s the history of LA Yorona fun fact, apparently in central America and other parts of the world where LA Yorona story is, well-known kids play a different version of hide and seek instead of just running and trying to find the people who seek peace seeker, plays and calls after the hiders, then they ask them, see hosts, which means where are my children?
Speaker 4 00:36:24 That’s so messed up. Oh my God, that’s a very like,
Speaker 0 00:36:30 Like ring around the Rosie type thing. Thank
Speaker 4 00:36:32 You. I was like, I was about to say like pocket full of Posey. I’m like, what the hell is the, what is it called? Wow. That was really funny. I’m like, you know,
Speaker 0 00:36:40 Yeah. It’s um, it that’s exactly what it made me think of too, because I remember when we were kids, we would do ring around the Rosie and in alpha is where I learned the origins of ring around their whole seat. And they told us that and I was like, well,
Speaker 4 00:36:55 Like we’re in this deep, you know, who cares?
Speaker 0 00:36:59 Oh, wow. I mean, it did kind
Speaker 4 00:37:01 Of ruin it. Sorry. I just lost my phone.
Speaker 0 00:37:04 Yeah. It’s just, you know, one of those things. So I felt like that had very similar vibes. Yeah. So that’s the history behind . Um, I will be honest. I’m probably going to readdress the subject because there was a lot more Oh, wow. Specifically. I was really interested in the idea that she came about as a, you know, omen of the conquest of Mexico and central America. There were apparently 10 omens, 10 or eight elements of this type of stuff that people noticed before the conquerors came. And
Speaker 4 00:37:52 So you’re saying that they were like haunted by Liahona before they w the, the Spanish came. And then it like is also important because it’s like, kind of what the Spanish did, but she was already a legend before the Spanish came, right? Yes.
Speaker 2 00:38:12 Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Bam. Yup. Got very breathy.
Speaker 0 00:38:42 Okay. So before the end of the Aztec empire, there were eight omens, um, that they believe four told this end of the Aztec empire, which I’m not like I’m going to really try and do a topic about this. Cause I thought it was super fucking interesting, but ly Yorona, uh, the weeping woman is the sixth Oh man. And said to be the basis of the actual, you know, ghost story. Right.
Speaker 4 00:39:12 So it was just going to be a two-parter.
Speaker 0 00:39:15 No, it’s not. I’m almost done.
Speaker 4 00:39:17 Oh, no. I mean like between like the and the omens.
Speaker 0 00:39:22 Oh, for sure. I’m going to do omens and other times. So yeah, for several nights, the citizens of the Aztec capital city had heard the cries of a woman wailing. The female voice was heard to be saying my children, it is already too late. My children, where can I take you? The haunting voice filled all who heard it with a deep sense of dread. And this was the Capitol of the Aztec empire. And like I said, it was said to be the omen before the collapse of their whole entire civilization culture.
Speaker 4 00:40:00 So, but like, did they know, like I’m confused, is this like a hindsight is 2020 situation where they were like, Oh shit, that was probably an omen that this was going to happen. Or were they, did they know it as it was happening? And they were like, Oh, she’s here because they’re going to come. You know,
Speaker 0 00:40:23 They knew about these signs before the Spaniards came, is the myth. Obviously I’m going to do more research because I’m gonna mention this later because it’s very fucking interesting to me. I had no idea about this. Wow. Um, but yeah, I,
Speaker 4 00:40:40 You hear about liar. So you heard it from your friend Diana.
Speaker 0 00:40:44 Yes. Diana is from New Mexico. She is Mexican heritage. Right. And she was, Oh, we were talking about it because there was a new movie that came out by the same people who did the conjuring, uh, called, I think it’s called the curse of yeah. The curse of lie. You don’t know weird. Okay. Which I have not seen yet, but I do intend on watching who, so that first story that I started with is a real experience from ancient There was another one. So this one is a video that I’m going to send to you right now. Okay. So this video, um, it says LA Yorona caught on film. Uh, the was taken from security footage in Mexico city. Uh, it was recorded at 2:20 AM on September 18th, 2016. And in the video, you see what looks like a slightly see-through apparition of somebody with like long black hair and white dress standing in the intersection. Right. Um, and you’re watching and at first I don’t, you don’t know that it’s like, translucent, you think that they’re just there and that they’re standing in the intersection and as you’re watching the car drives through,
Speaker 1 00:42:11 Oh my God. I literally just watched that as you are saying it.
Speaker 0 00:42:15 Ah ha. And she still there just fine. So yeah, I was, I remember I was looking at this video and I saw it and I was like, I don’t know. I guess I’ll watch the stupid video. And then I saw it and had the same reaction that Emily just said. And I was like, Whoa, shit. That is a little intense. Is that creepy?
Speaker 1 00:42:39 Yeah. Where is this app?
Speaker 0 00:42:43 Uh, Mexico city. Mexico.
Speaker 1 00:42:48 Oh my God. Seeing it from all the different angles though. Hmm, wow. Um, that’s crazy. And
Speaker 0 00:42:56 Isn’t it crazy? It’s so creepy.
Speaker 1 00:42:59 It’s definitely very creepy looking for sure.
Speaker 0 00:43:04 So then my last story was, so I found this article about this one dude who he really was into the story of LA you don’t know. So do you want to take a duct research on it? So he found people who had these experiences and interviewed them and, you know, did things like made sure they were saying and investigated the places where they claim to have seen it and make sure, you know, like it was cool and whatever. And he listed a couple of like really bizarre experiences that you didn’t know how to like debunk or anything. So, and this was in Jakarta, Cuadro Jada Quadro. Um, so this woman and her children were staying with her sister and her family for an extended period of time. They had moved into the room at the far like the farthest center of the house. Right. Um, however soon after that various family members started hearing strange noises at night, footsteps, doors opening and closing, muffled crying, and like somebody messing with the cabinets and stuff like that.
Speaker 0 00:44:13 At random times of the day and night, the muffled crying was sometimes also accompanied by the apparition of what looked like . But she would only manifest in like brief glimpses again, like the first story the family asked a priest to come in, bless house, as you do. But the ghostly occurrence is still continued again. So one night the mom wakes up to see her ch her kid talking to the shadow, let’s see like LA Yorona near her bed. And the woman obviously freaked out, like, uh, yeah. And, uh, she, you know, she’s like, Oh my God, come here. Like tell me what happened. And the little kid says, you know, Oh, that nice lady asked us to sleep in the front room and not the bedroom that we’re currently in. So the mom’s like, uh, okay, sure. So they all go move to, I think the living room, I mean, yeah. That’s yeah. They were like, well, here’s no bedroom. We’ll go to living room. That’s fine. Whatever two nights later thunderous crack was heard. And the entire household woke up to find at the back bedrooms, walls, and ceiling had collapsed entirely into a sink hole and the rear end of the house.
Speaker 0 00:45:45 Yeah. So, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Obviously
Speaker 3 00:45:50 I feel like an angel of death thing, but it’s like, it’s the angel of almost death. She’s like, if you don’t listen to me, some shit’s about to happen.
Speaker 0 00:45:57 And so there was this interesting story too, where it was like, you know, if she has a specific type of connection for you, you’ll see her and she won’t stop your death. But if you have this other connection before her, you’ll see her and she’ll try and save you hence with the child and the children. I thought it was so interesting. These were the, uh, like there was a lot of stories and more videos, but like, these were some of the more detailed stories that I saw. And it was definitely more heartwarming to, to see that these stories were positive.
Speaker 3 00:46:27 You know, Lilith is said to be like the, you know, in some ways I’ve seen her like portrayed as like the goddess of the underworld. Um, but I also have read some interesting things about like what you consider the underworld and like, what is a part of that and what she protects and what she can, could communicate, or like, you know, she’s said to be very protective of children, um, and that she’s like, you know, uh, communicates on a level with like the animals, you know, and the forest and like all these other levels. I mean, I’ve like read a lot of like weird stuff about Willis, but that it’s like a very little of five. It’s like, whatever, whatever name she goes by, if you’re saying she has a connection with the kids, like she’s there, she’s trying to protect the kids. And then, you know, it might be a connection with the underworld or with a different level or side of like spirituality seems to be like the through line in a lot of these stories of like catching a glimpse of that. I don’t know, but that’s just, I thought it was super interesting
Speaker 0 00:47:30 How all of these tales were like, Oh, she killed her children. Now she wants to take yours. And yet in least two stories, at least she’s saving them.
Speaker 3 00:47:41 Yeah. I think maybe it’s like, I could see it as like a panicked Karen being like, I saw a woman trying to take my baby and she was screaming. Cause you’ve got to Napa.
Speaker 0 00:47:58 Oh my God, Evan. That was like the perfect fucking name for that. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:48:04 Yeah. But yeah, no, that seems like a real care in attitude to like look at it. But, but I mean really in the stories it’s like, yeah, it’s this weird sort of like, Hey, I’m looking out for you. You should listen to me. And then they’re like, yeah, mommy. She said, let’s call over here. So interesting.
Speaker 0 00:48:18 Yeah. I’d be like, okay, let’s do that. I don’t know the more, I guess the more I hear stories like this, the more I’m like, okay, if Evie ever comes to me with something like this, I need to just listen to her. Cause like she’s ever like, um, there was a man in my room. There’s no like Sara being like, it’s your imagination, honey. Go to bed. And you’re just like Sarah pulling out some fucking Sage and being like, get the fuck out of here, bitch.
Speaker 3 00:48:42 So yo, I’ve been rewatching the Mindy project. And uh, there’s an episode where she’s trying to, like, she’s trying to get Danny to be her gynecologist. It’s like in the first couple episodes of the first season and he’s being all Danny Castillano. And so he’s trying to like get under her skin and he’s like doing all this stuff. And then Morgan tells her that she needs to, she has an, a warrior in her inner self and that she needs to have a warrior name. And that when they’re saying your name, that it’s not you, that you’re the warrior and you have to pick a name and don’t tell it to anybody. And so she’s like Beyonce pad Thai. And then she like, you know, has the confidence to like take on, take on the situation.
Speaker 0 00:49:25 I love it so much. I love
Speaker 3 00:49:27 It too. I forgot. Like I haven’t watched so many projects at a minute, but I’ve missed that. It’s a funny show. It’s a good one.
Speaker 0 00:49:33 Oh God. I’ll have to check it out. I’ve still been stuck on psych.
Speaker 3 00:49:37 Yeah, no, I know
Speaker 0 00:49:39 You saw my snaps. I just,
Speaker 3 00:49:41 He snaps though. Cause I don’t think I can watch it up here. Maybe I can. It’s on prime. Yeah, I know. I don’t know if I have the login for that. Oh yeah, I do because I watched a heart of a stranger. Hi,
Speaker 0 00:49:52 Also you have my login. You
Speaker 3 00:49:54 Say that, but you never sent it to me. And also I’m pretty sure it’s logged in on the CV anyways. So I don’t know why you’re complaining. I told you I just,
Speaker 0 00:50:02 Oh, okay. It was like, did you see my face?
Speaker 3 00:50:07 I did. I saw your Beyonce pad Thai right there. Sock come out just a little bit.
Speaker 0 00:50:12 Um, also as a tidbit, I just wanna do one more thing before I finish up. okay. Um, so there’s this one amazing offer, uh, Rudolfo, Anaya, um, he’s very famous, uh, and super big in China literature. Uh, he wrote, bless me Ultima, which was made into like a play was the novel it’s like, it’s supposed to be really good. I need to read it. I actually, he also wrote children’s stories though. And I bought some of his children’s stories for Eby because Diana had recommended him to me. Right. Um, so I was doing this research on LA Yorona and he has a children’s book version. He also, he also has a mini novel about it, which I’m about to like order, because that seems like a good story, but he has a children’s book version of it. Oh my God. Of . Um, and it’s called LA Yorona the crying woman. Wow. And so in this story, he is really harking back to like Aztec beliefs or different like indigenous beliefs. Right. Um, so in his story, he’s maybe named Maya born and she has a birthmark get this on her shoulder like yours. Oh God, that looks like yours. Oh God. And he, they claimed when she’s born, the chief priest says it is the sun shining sun. Maya is a child of the sun and she will never die. Also. I find that ironic since your nickname is Emily sunshine,
Speaker 5 00:51:58 I’m upset right now. That’s not cool.
Speaker 0 00:52:02 You’re welcome for that. Yay. Breath marks. Yeah. Um, so that, yeah, they call her the child at the son. She will never die. Um, so basically Maya is this beautiful little happy baby and everybody loves Maya. She’s great. She’s known to help her parents work in the fields. However did not like Maya, Mr. Time kind of, he says, I am the father of time. He’s a God, this girl will never, never perish. And if she has children, they will live forever. I cannot allow that. So it sounds like he’s kind of like Hades in that sense. Right. Um, so the chief priest heard this threat and tells Maya and her family, they were like, well, shit, we gotta do something about this because we can’t, you know, have her harmed. Or if she wants to have children, we can’t have them harmed. Right. Um, so they’re like, well, we gotta put her in hiding. So they put her in hiding. Right. And they take her to the associate, took her up to the volcano in the jungle. And they’re at the edge of the Lake. Maya would live far away from the angry Sinyard tempo. She tended to her vegetable garden. She had gathered which like, yes, please.
Speaker 4 00:53:29 That is an actual hobby of yours. Um, I even gather feathers for you.
Speaker 0 00:53:37 I appreciate it. Um, and so, but as she grows older and time is passing. She’s getting lonely. She’s up there all by herself in the volcano. And so she has a friend called Senorita owl. I’m assuming is another goddess or something like that. But she says, you know, it’s time for you to have kids. She tells her to make a clay pot and fill it with fertile earth seeds in the pot. And once you do that, you’ll get children, which like, um, can that be the way that I have children? Cause that sounds way fucking easier than getting practice.
Speaker 4 00:54:13 Well, you do a fella.
Speaker 0 00:54:17 That’s okay. You’re right. You’re right. You’re right. So in time Maya has a little baby girl and then filled her pot with seeds. Yes. Okay. And everybody was super excited except cautious in your snake. He says, beware of seniority, MPO. He will come to clam your child. And he, you know, she was like, well, what can I do? So say new order owl says, save the bowl that you used to create your baby and keep it safe. So she did, she was told, right? She made another pot, had a baby boy. She said that he was strong as a Jaguar. So she named him Jaguar boy, which does not sound right.
Speaker 4 00:55:10 Creative to me sounds pretty creative, actually, Jaguar boy, how many Jaguar boys have you met in your life? You know, that’s a fair point.
Speaker 0 00:55:22 Very true. And you know, she’s come to realize, you know, that she can do this. And the young man that she, or as the family, like she was able to do this and have more kids, right? She’s like, as long as I keep your pet safe, you will stay with me forever. Well, Senor tempo gets wind that she is living up all happy. And has these children now that will live forever. And she’s, he’s pissed. Of course. So he puts on a mask somehow. And that pretends that he pretends to be an old wise teacher and goes to her garden and he tells her that he’s like, Oh, you have such beautiful kids. And she’s like, thanks. This Al told me to make positive clay. So I did it. And now I have all these children. It’s great. And he’s like, but your children will grow up and leave.
Speaker 0 00:56:12 And then they will age and die. And she’s like, well, no, my friend Senorita to Apple or Apple, LOL Senora owl told me if I keep my pot safe, my children will be a mortar and mortal. And so Sydney ought to impose like a, huh? That’s how you deal it. Okay. Well, listen, I just heard this hot new tip to keep your children alive forever. Well, you actually have to do is throw the pots in the river and then they’ll stay with the river forever. A lot of river talk. Yeah. Well you must break the pots into pieces and throw them in the room in the Lake. Sorry, my bad.
Speaker 4 00:56:58 Oh my God. Rivers and lakes.
Speaker 0 00:57:00 I told you bodies of water. So she’s like, well I want my children to live forever. Although Maya girl, your other friends were obviously trustworthy, but like this dude he’s just met, like, why are you going to take his advice?
Speaker 4 00:57:12 No, no. He looks old. Maybe he knows a thing or two though, but around the block once or twice. Yeah. So a few pots in the river. He Ana, huh?
Speaker 0 00:57:20 So she does that. And when she does that, there’s a terrible storm over the Lake lightning flashed and thunder shook the earth and all the animals ran to hide. grabbed all of her fight, frightened children and led them to the Lake and toss them in the water and killed. Wow.
Speaker 4 00:57:40 Wow. Wow.
Speaker 0 00:57:42 And Maya goes by children, where are my Nino’s? And he goes too late. They’re mine. The next sentences. myON news. Sydney RTM had lied to her. No shit. Yeah. Duh. I mean, I know it’s a children’s book, but like come on
Speaker 4 00:57:59 And you’re getting real fired up about duh. I don’t want to hear that.
Speaker 0 00:58:04 So she was heartbroken and all of her beautiful children work on and she can’t do it. She tried to gather up the pieces from her pots, but the water had to solve the clay. So now all of her children are gone forever and she spends the rest of her time. You know, mournfully crying out for her children who are gone children’s book. Yeah. And she remembers she’s, she’s also slated to live forever because she has the Mark of the sun on her. So guess I’m going to live forever. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:58:38 And so my,
Speaker 0 00:58:41 I mean, yay. Sorry. Should have had a better reaction. I don’t know.
Speaker 4 00:58:45 Is that a yay reaction? I don’t know if they have any to anything I’ve seen about vampires. They’re really upset that they have to be around for eternity.
Speaker 0 00:58:54 Very true. Um, so Maya’s parents in the village or you heard her cries, but there was nothing they could do. And then they became afraid of the crying woman, fearful mothers called their children and doors. The mothers whispered be good, or the crying woman, thank you, belonged to her. And she will carry you away. The children shivered and obeyed. And they did not go play in the deep and dangerous Lake. Maya had become the crying woman. And since she is a mortal, she must search for her children forever.
Speaker 1 00:59:30 Wow. That’s the best story so far. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:59:33 I know, right? Yeah. Well he, like I said, he’s a very critically acclaimed author. Uh, can’t wait to read that story to you before bedtime, but yeah, that was his, that was his children’s version of it.
Speaker 1 00:59:46 Also question, how is Liahona spelled,
Speaker 0 00:59:51 Uh, LA LA double L O R O N a.
Speaker 1 01:00:01 Say that again? It’s it text it to me real quick. Okay. That makes sense. I was not understanding that there was a space in between, I don’t know, just the L and the double L’s, you know, um, it really, really rolls off the tongue actually. Honestly, it’s a pretty, pretty awesome name. that’s like, that’s a good name.
Speaker 0 01:00:26 I know. Like, can you do that weird shoulder roll that you just did with that too?
Speaker 1 01:00:31 Apparently I can’t just fucking glitch
Speaker 0 01:00:44 But yeah. So that’s my, that’s my paranormal story.
Speaker 1 01:00:47 Wow. Well that was delightful. Um, that was, that was great. That was interesting. I’ve never heard of layout alumna.
Speaker 0 01:00:58 Now you don’t know. And now I want to watch no, I want to watch the, uh, the movie.
Speaker 1 01:01:03 Yeah. See now I want to watch like mass bizarro.
Speaker 0 01:01:06 I know me too, especially when it was like lightning flashed, thunder shook the earth. It just makes me think of when he’s telling the story of, uh, Oh my God, stop. Damn it. Now I’m gonna have to watch it tonight. It’s so good.
Speaker 1 01:01:25 Okay. I’m going to stop, but that would be the siren song I actually was saying to . And also, yes, I did think of that. When you said lightning crashed and thunder shift theater. Yeah. With this little flower story,
Speaker 0 01:01:38 I know. Did you see that? I paused to, to be like, did you get it?
Speaker 1 01:01:42 Oh, wow. I was really, no, I did not get it. I was like, after you finished that story, I was like, you know, that kind of sounded like,
Speaker 0 01:01:50 Okay, okay. I got ya. But yeah, that was my, my nice creepy story. And I had it, I had fun finishing up my research today. Cause it was like nice and like gloomy outside. And I’m like, yes, parents. Exactly.
Speaker 1 01:02:02 Yes. Spooktacular.
Speaker 0 01:02:05 Yes, exactly. So, yeah.
Speaker 1 01:02:10 Awesome. I loved that. It was interesting. And also, yeah.
Speaker 0 01:02:17 Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people do those of like this
Speaker 5 01:02:20 Haunted castle in England, which don’t get me wrong. I fucking love haunted castles
Speaker 3 01:02:24 Castle in English, haunted guys, like, come on, come on.
Speaker 5 01:02:28 Yeah. I wanted to find something more local, you know, to the Mexico region. And boy, I was not disappointed.
Speaker 3 01:02:36 Yeah. I love that. Um, it definitely makes me think of like Lilith and all of that. It’s just, it’s very, it’s very interesting. It’s very interesting when like vocal around the world, like kind of matches up, but it just makes you think a little bit of like, is there a reason, you know,
Speaker 5 01:02:54 I feel like there has to be personally, but that’s just me.
Speaker 3 01:02:57 I mean, personally I feel the same way, but it really, really, uh, really begs the question doesn’t it?
Speaker 5 01:03:04 Hmm. Hmm. And sure does. Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:03:12 All right. So I’m going to start off with the story of Madison from Macon, Georgia. Okay. So Madison.
Speaker 5 01:03:27 Yeah. Okay. I like how we started both Mars similarly then.
Speaker 3 01:03:31 Yeah. Oh, you just, you wait, just, you wait. Madison is about 16 years old now, but as a little kid growing up, she had several imaginary friends, several, several, their names were Danna and Steve Fraga and Kinga and boyfriend and girlfriend. So she had quite a few imaginary friends, always in pairs. One day when Madison was three years old, a new imaginary friend came along and his name was Kellam. Um, Madison said in, in interview with, um, endless thread, which is, uh, w B U R like Boston’s NPR. Um, they did it, they have a podcast called endless thread and they do stories that they find on Reddit. Um, but they actually contact the Redditors and interview them on the show. Okay. So they picked up the story from a Reddit thread and contacted them. Um, so you can listen to that. It’s a really good, so check it out.
Speaker 3 01:04:47 But, um, so Madison said on an interview, she said, I remember him being tall. He kind of felt like a father figure to me. And he kind of felt like my dad, he had a beard and she said he seemed to be in his forties and was always wearing work clothes for working outside. Okay. She says, I remember one time I had a little table and chairs sitting in my room and I would make Play-Doh sandwiches for me and him, or I would build towers and knock them down because he thought it was funny. And at this point Madison’s mom, Kelly, you know, was intrigued and her daughter’s new imaginary friend, but didn’t think too much of him. Um, you know, she had quite a few, but Madison seemed to be spending a lot of time with him and leaving her other imaginary friends behind then Kellam taught her a song, Oh my God, Maddy being a small three-year-old, you know, made it hard for Kelly to make out what the song was at first.
Speaker 3 01:05:51 Um, but after hearing Maddie sing it, you know, over and over again, or like speak it, you know, she, um, asked her babysitter and she said, you know, Hey, can you give me the words to the song? You know, was like, is it on a CD or are you playing it for her? You know, how is she hearing this so I can help her sing it and we can see it together. And the babysitter was like, no, I thought you guys taught her that song. I’ve never heard that song before. I don’t know what she’s saying either. And so Kelly went home later on that night and Maddie started singing it again. And Kelly asked, you know, Maddie, where are you hearing that song from? Like, where did you hear it? And Maddie goes, Oh, Kellam taught it to me. He sings it to his baby.
Speaker 3 01:06:38 Uh, yeah, Kelly was a little surprised, you know, Madison’s response and was curious about how an imaginary friend could teach her daughter a whole song, which he apparently stinks to his imaginary baby. Um, so she asked a coworker about some of the lyrics that she got from Madison and her coworker told her that that was in fact, a very real song. The song was Daisy bell or more popular, known as bicycle built for two or Daisy, Daisy. And now this song was written in 1892. And if you look up, yes, if you look up Daisy bell and Wikipedia, they actually have the original recording available to listen to. It is freaky. It was recorded by the Edison phonograph company on a Brown wax cylinder. And it sounds like it, like, it sounds very creepy, but here’s a version that you might recognize
Speaker 3 01:08:00 It sounds so creepy. So creepy it’s like, this is the Nat King Cole version. So it sounds like smooth at least, but the, even the background is, it sounds like the song that
Speaker 5 01:08:16 Like plays in the background during like apocalyptic nonsense, like fall out shelter or bias or anything like that. Like Ooh. Yeah. Creepy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:08:27 Um, yeah. So fun fact, it was featured in American horror story. And another fun fact is in 1961 and IBM seven Oh four at bell labs was programmed to sing Daisy bell in the earliest demonstration of computer speech analysis. Does it make me feel better about this? I don’t need tutors singing me a song either. Yeah. Uh, yeah. It’s just got a weird, so yeah. So imagine your three-year-old singing that to you. Okay. She suddenly learns the song from the 1890s that no one she’s three, you know, where she goes, you know, who she talks to and sees like, no one’s playing the song for her. And she just, it comes up with it because her imaginary friend is singing it, tastings it to his baby and is singing it to her and teaches it to her. Weird. Okay. Um, yeah. So despite all of this, you know, Kelly finds out about the song. She’s like, okay, well that’s a little weird, but Madison still really seems to enjoy Callum’s company and he’s not causing any harm. So maybe it’s just a coincidence. Okay. Madison said, you know, he was always really comforting to me. He was always nice. I mean, at first, at least as time passed, he wasn’t so nice anymore.
Speaker 5 01:09:53 God.
Speaker 3 01:09:55 So Kelly began to notice that Maddie was becoming more and more irritable. She was constantly tired and throwing temper tantrums every day, which was out of character for her. Um, so she finally asked Maddie what was wrong. And Maddy told her that Kellam was keeping her up all night when she wanted to sleep. Callum would start to yell at Maddy. He wanted to play all the time and never wanted her to go to sleep. And when she was getting too tired to stay up, he would tap on her windows at night to keep her awake.
Speaker 5 01:10:26 Oh my God.
Speaker 3 01:10:29 Yeah. Now rolling up Kelly Madison’s mom actually had a strangely similar experience as a kid. She didn’t necessarily have an imaginary friend, but when Kelly was eight years old, she would be trying to go to sleep and she would hear something brush up against her backpack on the floor of her room. When she got up to turn the lights on, there would be nothing there. So she started sleeping with the light on every night, which is what I would’ve done. Um, no thank you. But eventually the light burned out and her mom took the globe off of her light to change the bulb, but she never replaced the globe. And that’s when she started noticing the tapping. She said that she could hear something tapping on the light bulb at night, just like,
Speaker 5 01:11:22 Nope,
Speaker 3 01:11:26 Just like tapping all night. Um, her TV would also turn on in the middle of the night and it was an older TV where you actually to pull the power button out to turn it on. And she said that she would look up and the button would be pulled out all the way as someone like physically something physically like engaged it. Um, and she said, when it turned out, it would either be static or the star Spangled banner, which yeah.
Speaker 5 01:11:46 Oh no, no, thank you. Oh God.
Speaker 3 01:11:52 Yeah. So as a kid, she tried to explain what was happening to her own mom and her mom would just dismiss her and sell her, you know, stop making up stories that she was sleepwalking that she didn’t know what she was talking about. And um, now Kelly still had her baby monitor, uh, for Maddie when Maddie was three years old. And after hearing about, you know, Kellam keeping her up all night, um, she decided to put it in Maddie’s room to see, you know, what was going on and to see if she could hear her like getting up or, you know, and make sure she was going back to bed.
Speaker 3 01:12:22 So that night Kelly could hear her daughter having conversations. Maddie would speak for a little while, then be quiet. And then she would speak again as if she was answering somebody the longer this went on, the more Mattie became afraid of Callum. And then she told Kelly, her mom, that Kellam didn’t look the same anymore. Madison said that his face began to look dirty, that his eyes would be really sunken in. And his face looked like gone and skinnier, you know, and that he just looked sick to her. Um, which hasn’t been for a child. I can imagine that being fucking terrifying. Um, that gives me Coraline vibes, which I am still too scared to watch again, like, so that once I was tricked into seeing it and I thought it would be a cute movie. It was not sorry, if you liked Coraline nightmares, I still have them like, no, thank you.
Speaker 5 01:13:19 I liked Coraline. It’s terrifying. Yeah, it is. I see that with you in theaters. Yes. You did God. Or you are tricked into watching it. Yup. Yup, yup. Yup. Okay.
Speaker 3 01:13:34 Two different ends of the spectrum. You’re like the daughter of skeletons. Oh, nevermind. I’m not going say it you’re you know, you’re the Gothic syndrome. No, no, no. I was just going to say you’re like the Gothic Cinderella and I’m the child of the,
Speaker 5 01:13:49 Yeah. You got to live forever with your Mark of the sun.
Speaker 3 01:13:54 Yes. I mean, I do feel dead inside, so that’s true.
Speaker 5 01:14:01 Just kidding. Um, Jake, Hey guys. JK
Speaker 3 01:14:07 JK JK. So yeah, so Callum’s face is starting to look, uh, creepy as fuck. And um, then one night Kelly woke up to the sound of her daughter screaming. She said it wasn’t like a bad dream scream or I want something scream, but a blood curdling scream of terror, Kelly jumped up and opened her bedroom door. And Madison was trying to climb over the baby gate, crying and screaming. Mommy helped me. Mommy come help me. She ran over to Maddie, picked her up and looked around her room to see if anything or anyone was there only to find the curtains in Maddie’s room, billowing out abruptly as if the window had been opened and a strong gust of wind blew them out into the room. But the window in Maddie’s room, wasn’t open.
Speaker 1 01:14:58 Yeah. Back.
Speaker 3 01:15:00 Yeah. She immediately ran out of the house with Maddie and her arms went to stay at her best friend’s house. She describes it. She’s like she was in a nightgown. I was in pajamas. It was freezing cold outside. We were in barefoot. We were barefoot. Like I ran out of the house, which yes, that is what I would do too. Um, and Madison remembers that night and she said, I can remember him getting very upset with me that night. He was being really aggressive. He walked up to me and grabbed me by my wrist. And that’s when I tried to get away and I tried to make it over the baby.
Speaker 1 01:15:31 Oh,
Speaker 3 01:15:33 Now they are in the deep South they’re in Georgia and Kelly and her family were a part of the pet Accostal church. And her father-in-law was the pastor at the time. So she really didn’t know what to do. Uh, obviously, you know, she had talked to her mother about this as a kid and they, her family didn’t believe in this kind of stuff happening. They believed that if something paranormal happened, it was because you had invited the devil into your life.
Speaker 1 01:15:58 Exactly.
Speaker 3 01:16:01 So, um, but unfortunately she just didn’t have anywhere else to turn. So she called her father-in-law and had him come to the house to anoint it and bless it in the hopes that they would be rid of Kelham
Speaker 1 01:16:12 For all this work. Yeah,
Speaker 3 01:16:15 I did. And it’s actually really funny to hear her like talk about it in the interview because she’s like, they just anoint everything here in the South and you know, if they can put oil on and across on something, they will do it. And she was like, so I came back to the house and it was all covered in these oiled up crosses like over all the doorways. It’s just everywhere on the windows, on the doors, on the walls, like all these crosses. And she said it was like a little creepy, but when she walked into the house, it felt peaceful like the way it had before bad Callum. Um, and then they never had an incident with Kellam again,
Speaker 1 01:16:53 But
Speaker 3 01:16:54 Kelly couldn’t shake her curiosity of caliber. You know, she had assumed that he was just an imaginary friend up until this point, you know, and Callum wasn’t a popular name and Maddie’s other imaginary friends were Fraga and Kinga, you know, how could you not originally assume like, Oh, it’s just something my kids make it up. You know, she’s making up a bunch of imaginary friends nothing’s happening. And then this one comes out of nowhere. I mean, I do find it interesting that they were all in pairs. Um, but yeah, so she had told her friends at work, you know, about the story of Kelham, you know, she’s talking about the song that he’s teaching her and everything. And so she was talking to them about all this other stuff that had happened and the same coworker who had known the song, Daisy bell gave Kelly access to her account.
Speaker 3 01:17:39 So she could try and look him up to see if she could find a connection to a real person. Um, now I didn’t know this, but apparently I’m sure you know this, but you can do property searches on as well as like family names. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn’t aware of that. So she searched the property and the property within like a half mile radius of where she lived and was able to find that the property adjacent to hers was bought by the Beasley family in 1941. And when she pulled up the properties history, she saw the name of the man that had bought the property in 1941. And his name was Callum Beasley, M a L L U S.
Speaker 0 01:18:24 Hmm. Do you remember the Kalm we went to Elvin with, there was a cow. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s a very uncommon name.
Speaker 3 01:18:30 It is not very common at all. Yeah. Even in England only knew one coulomb. Um, so yeah, and then she was also able to find his family records on ancestry as well, found out that he had five children. The youngest was three years old when she died and her name was Madeline.
Speaker 0 01:18:48 Oh my God.
Speaker 3 01:18:51 AKA Maddie.
Speaker 0 01:18:54 So he just liked found her and fixated on her.
Speaker 3 01:18:58 It’s just, it’s one of those that it gives that like, when I read that, that gave me instant fringe vibes of like the old man and the old woman and how it’s just like trying to get to something it’s just, Ooh, it just gives me chills. Um, so, you know, they asked him about the property on the, um, on endless thread and they said that they remember the property and they described it as like a big open field. And that Madison recalled that one day after school, she decided to like walk back there and explore around a little bit. And she found a group of dairy cows, like black and white dairy cows. So they looked healthy. They had tags on their ears, but she never saw the cows again after that day. And according to Kelly, there were never any cows on the property. However, thanks to Kelly found out that Callum Beasley’s family did have cows and that they ran a dairy farm on that land when they lived there.
Speaker 0 01:19:51 Dude, that is creepy as fuck. Right. It’s like a, a glitch in the matrix to a previous time.
Speaker 3 01:19:58 I know. I know. So, so yeah. So as you may have guessed, my deep dive this week is into imaginary friends. Oh, that’s a good one.
Speaker 0 01:20:08 Hmm. Hmm. I guess, uh, nothing we could bring up my fake imaginary friend.
Speaker 3 01:20:19 Well, I it’s like when you brought that up and even the first part of your story, when you started talking, I was like, Oh my God. I swear. We’re either doing the same thing where it’s really close. And I find it really interesting that it’s like very close stories, but yeah, no mom told me about that and she didn’t even know I was doing this yet. And she was telling me about how you said, uh, or like, I think maybe you said it, like, I think it was a guardian angel. I wrote that in my notes.
Speaker 0 01:20:46 So yeah, when I was a kid for everybody else, that was a kid. I remember seeing something at the weeding house. Yeah. But I did not re I sort of suppressed or forgot about this other setting that I remember seeing when I was much younger in the house at Edwards and it was at the window and it was like a white figure. And I remember when I was little, I used to tell myself that it was a guardian angel, but it also coincided with the period of time where I refuse to be by myself when I slept. Um, and mom was telling me that those houses were built in world war II and they were pretty old. And you know, that base was a testing base. So there was a lot of accidents and stuff like that that happened at the base. Um, but while we were living there, uh, now I don’t remember this at all.
Speaker 0 01:21:42 And so when we were talking about this, we were talking because of the last episode we were talking about past lives. And like for the longest time, I used to think that it was more of a past life memory that I later forgot because it’s common for kids to forget when they get to like the age of five. Right. However, I was too. And I never mentioned any of this again, once we moved out of that house before you were born weird. And so what had happened was, was that, you know, mom said, I used to talk about this guy, Frank, who worked on the flight line. And, you know, she used to say that I would be worried about him because what he did on the flight line was dangerous or something like that. And like, Oh, I really hope he comes home soon and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 0 01:22:29 And that’s kind of why we thought it was like more of a past life thing. But after remembering what had happened, I know that it sounds crazy cause I was too. And I remember, and like at this point I’ll be honest. Like it’s faded a lot as to what I actually saw, but I have other related memories of when I was a kid and me saying that it was a guardian angel because it was in white. And I was like, well, it was white. So I guess it wasn’t bad. And the only other time in my life where I refuse to be alone and hated sleeping by myself was in weeding where I did see something, you know what I mean? Um, but I even checked with mom cause we were talking on the phone cause I was like, well, how was the bedroom set up? I was like, was my bed like in the corner? And there was a window right there at the, like at the foot of my bed. And she’s like, yes. And so like I knew, I remembered enough to know the layout of the room where I’m seeing this. Um, but yeah, so that was our discovery that it was less of a past life memory and probably more of a ghosty thing.
Speaker 4 01:23:38 Yeah, yeah, no, she was telling me about that. Like, as I was like fighting kids, you know, of course I’m like, Oh it would have, I just pretty story, but it, and then found like this really good one. But, um, but yeah, like as I was like in the middle of doing that, she was telling me about it and I was like, well, you don’t even know how on-point you are. Yeah,
Speaker 0 01:23:56 Yeah, yeah. And guys, it was enough of a thing. Like apparently I used to talk about all the time when I was a kid and I’d talk about Frank and Oh my husband. Yeah.
Speaker 4 01:24:06 No, we always talked about that. Growing up was foul. He works on the flight line. Like poking fun at it, but no, that’s always been a thing.
Speaker 0 01:24:13 Yeah. And like I apparently requested mom and dad make me a flight line badge. Oh yeah. So I could go see him on the flight line when I was like two and like I S yeah. And it, I just think it’s weird that at all, like we pinpointed that it all stopped. Once we
Speaker 4 01:24:29 Got that. You don’t, you
Speaker 0 01:24:31 Never know. It could be. Yeah. Like at first I thought that it was that I forgot because you were going to be born, but we were talking about, and she’s like, actually, you didn’t mention it once when we open to the other house.
Speaker 4 01:24:47 Yeah. That’s interesting. Wait, she didn’t mentioned Frank either.
Speaker 0 01:24:50 No, I didn’t mention Frank. Once we moved into the other house, like it was, it, it was only at that house. Oh, that is really weird actually. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 4 01:25:02 Okay. What’s really weird is like my first thought I was like, maybe you were possessed by like a lady ghost. Maybe it wasn’t Frank at all. Maybe you were like SPE, like maybe, you know,
Speaker 0 01:25:12 Maybe, I mean, it’s possible. I’m not trying to say that
Speaker 4 01:25:15 You were possessed by the way. I’m not trying to say that my sister was possessed at any point. Like I know that’s like such a younger sister thing to say, but I just mean it in like,
Speaker 0 01:25:22 I wasn’t even taking it that way at all. No,
Speaker 4 01:25:26 It doesn’t sound very nice, but I don’t mean it in a bad way.
Speaker 0 01:25:29 No, I know what you mean. It’s definitely possible because like I said, at this point, it’s very hazy. All I remember is seeing a figure that was white and blurry in the window next to me. Yeah.
Speaker 4 01:25:43 Yeah. That’s that’s weird. Yeah, no I’m yeah. I mean, this is the first time everyone else is hearing about this, but I’m like, yeah, I’ve heard about this my whole life. Okay.
Speaker 0 01:25:52 I was going to say for airing all of our childhood secrets on air you’re welcome world.
Speaker 4 01:25:56 Welcome to the show. Um, so I did find a few other stories. Like Madison’s tell me. So
Speaker 3 01:26:04 I have a couple short ones that I just were for fun. Uh, there are some, there’s some other crazy ones out there to be honest. Um, so if you’re looking for a good spook, just searched, imaginary friends, scary stories, and you will find them. So one that I found, which was posted by someone using the screen name, Brown X coat has called Kelly in the closet. That sounds terrible. Yeah, it does. And that one red, um, well, my daughter was three. She had an imaginary friend named Kelly who lived in her closet. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:26:40 Kelly
Speaker 3 01:26:40 Sat in a little rocking chair while she slept, uh, played with her, et cetera. Typical imaginary friendship. Anyway, fast forward, two years later, the wife and I are watching the new Amityville, the one with Ryan Reynolds and our daughter walks out right as the dead girl goes all black-eyed far from being disturbed. She said, that looks like Kelly, Kelly, who we say, she says, you know, the dead girl that lived in my closet.
Speaker 5 01:27:18 I found another one. I like glitched. I broke at that. Yeah. The dead girl that lived in my closet. I love
Speaker 3 01:27:26 Reading this shit. This is my favorite.
Speaker 5 01:27:28 I’m so glad by the way that Evie so far has not come to me with this kind of shit, because I would lose my goddamn mind. Terrifying truly. Um,
Speaker 3 01:27:40 Like if my kid ever came to me and was like, there was a man in my room, but he’s nice. And his name is Caleb. I’ll be like a good McCray on a piece of paper. I’ll be like, draw him for me please. Now, right now. Need to know what he looks like, like set up some video cameras anyways and for red. DVR’d get it.
Speaker 2 01:27:58 Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:28:02 So yeah. So this one is called. The evil is coming. No, no, no, no, no, no. Postal by subway and using the username super fish, 1984, when my older daughter was two or three, she used to have a couple of imaginary friends, Dodo and D D they were typical imaginary friends. She would talk to them and play with them. And tell me about their lives. Then one day when she was about three, she was talking on her play phone. When I walked into the room, she hung up her phone and said to me with a completely flat voice and deadpan expression, the evil is coming
Speaker 2 01:28:37 The fuck.
Speaker 3 01:28:41 It scared the shit out of me. She seriously had an imaginary friend named the evil, turns out. The evil was actually a pretty nice friend. She just had an unfortunate name.
Speaker 2 01:28:57 I think that one was my favorite. That was
Speaker 0 01:29:02 Wait, what, what could the evil be biscuit? Like, what’s another name that’s close to the,
Speaker 3 01:29:08 The volt, the vole fees. Liezel
Speaker 0 01:29:15 Oh
Speaker 3 01:29:15 My God. They set on the, um, the endless thread podcasts. They were like, you know, Kellam sounds like, kill them. Like kill him. Yeah. And like had occurred to me. Oh my God. No, I didn’t. It hadn’t occurred to me until they said it. And then both Kelly and Madison are like on the interview and they’re like, Oh my God. Like, why would you even say that? Um, yeah. Yeah, there was a lot of good tweets too. There was one that said when she was two and three, my daughter had an imaginary friend named Stacy who quote, only had eyes and hands and didn’t have a body, but quote wanted one. My daughter said Stacy lived in the basement and taught her how to climb up walls. Y’all kids are fucking terrifying. That
Speaker 0 01:30:04 Is some fucked up shit. Yeah. Only had eyes and hands on toddler. How to climb up walls.
Speaker 3 01:30:12 Nance didn’t have a body, but she was on the lookout for R for a hot bud. Oh my God.
Speaker 0 01:30:20 Go see, uh, what was his name? Joseph. Henry Loveless. Get that torso.
Speaker 3 01:30:24 Oh shit. Yes. I mean, yeah, girl, just head up to Idaho, go check out the, the caves, the civil defense caves, you know, just like a mile outside of Dubois, you know, the ones you can’t mess them. Only caves in Idaho. Pretty much. Yeah. So there are also videos which are dedicated on like to, uh, if they tell you how to determine if your child really does have an imaginary friend or if they’re like experiencing something paranormal, which I thought was interesting. They’re like the top 10 like signs to look out for when your kid says they have an imaginary friend and it’s like a cutesy, like video, that’s supposed to spook you, but it’s also like, these are real suggestions and it’s basically shit, you know, where they’re like, you know, if they tell you that their imaginary friend is morphing into a demon, when they don’t get their way, then like that might be a red flag. Like you don’t want your kid to have like demon friends, like
Speaker 0 01:31:21 Also the little baby Jack, Jack in the events or in the Incredibles two turns into a little demon when he doesn’t get his way. So
Speaker 3 01:31:31 It’s just, so I said, it’s a red flag and it might be allegedly, I’m just saying, you know, something to keep an eye on, at least like, and like, that’s what I’m saying. It’s like, you know, if your daughter, if EVs three years old, started singing a creepy ass old song that happened to be real. Like that’s a red flag, that’s a red flag right there. So, yeah. So, but all spookiness aside, did you know that 60% of children have imaginary? Did you know? Oh, did I have an imaginary friend? Ah, I feel like I’m more like personified objects, you know, like we played with like stuffed animals and stuff like that. And you had Rabie and like, you know, like we had Lammy Lammy. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 5 01:32:15 I was very creative with my, my animal names.
Speaker 3 01:32:19 I just, I, whatever, whatever Thai named him, I was like, that’s what their name was meant to be. Ringo was my buddy for awhile actually.
Speaker 5 01:32:26 Rinko. Yes. You loved Ringo.
Speaker 3 01:32:30 I really did took him everywhere. Um, so yeah, so I feel like that was more like what we did. I don’t know. And then we also, we had each other, you know, but, um, according to psychologists, having an imaginary friend as a kid can give you an early understanding of other people’s minds, you know, due to the fact that they are in a mode of pretend play. And this is kind of the same for like other pair of sorts social relationships. So it’s imaginary friends or personified objects usually, you know, but when you’re in that pretend play mode, um, you know, it forces them to take on the perspective of another person. And it has also been proven that children who have measuring friends are more creative and have a more highly developed language skills. Um, if you think about it, they’re not only creating like a person or a being or a character to interact with, they are changing their perspective as well, to understand how this imaginary person or character feels about them and how they interact with others. And they are building a narrative with the imaginary character to play out a scenario or a story, you know, which is actually a lot of like creative thinking. Um, so children with imaginary friends are not only proven to be more creative, but they also are better at understanding another person’s perspective, which is often referred to as a theory of mind. And that is a popular term in the field of psychology as an assessment of an individual’s humans degree of capacity for empathy and understanding for others.
Speaker 5 01:34:00 So basically guys, I’m smarter more creative and have better understanding of other people basically. Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:34:07 Yeah. And this, uh, creativity and understanding has been shown to extend into adulthood as well. And now for those of you who aren’t my sister, you might be wondering, um, or if you didn’t have an imaginary friend, you know, you’re like, how can I get these skills? How can I improve my own theory of mind skill set? And you know, what the answer is? What is the answer? Take some acting classes.
Speaker 5 01:34:31 Ah, smart. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3 01:34:33 That actually is, um, there have been studies, uh, that were done at Yale university that showed that actors have an advanced theory of mind, um, because acting is an advanced form of pretending. I said it, but also it’s true. Um, as an actor, you have to like really get into like the, an embody, the character to understand their point of view in the scene. And the best actors are able to gain such a understanding of their characters, that we are able to believe that they are a different person from a different walk of life. So participating in editing classes yes, has been shown to improve theory of mind skills. Um, and now another interesting point that I stumbled across was about parasocial relationships in general. And parasocial relationships have been proven to buffer feelings of low self-esteem and social rejection. And like I said, if you think about it, it’s not just applicable to imaginary friends and personified objects like Hobbs from Calvin and Hobbs.
Speaker 3 01:35:31 It also applies to fictional characters in general, uh, character. So we read about novels storybooks or even see in films and TV shows psychologically our minds respond to these fictional friendships, the same way they respond to real-world friendships. When your favorite character in a book or movie dies, you experience grief, even though they don’t actually exist. The impact that they have is real. Yeah. So there’s this author and psychologist, Jennifer Barnes. And she did a survey where she asked participants to imagine their favorite fictional character, then to imagine them dying and to state how they would feel or how they would feel versus how they think they should feel. She, yeah. Yeah. Because it’s like, when you think about your favorite character, I mean, imagine like you’re, you know, first time you’re reading the Harry Potter series and you’re right at the end, like right. Getting into the second book and people are dropping like flies.
Speaker 3 01:36:32 Sorry, if you haven’t read it, you know, and you got to state how you would feel if this next person was the one to go versus how you think you really should feel about it. I sat and cried. And when I read that book, I was working at school actually. I was a glorified hall monitor and I had that book in my lap and I literally just sobbed tears. I don’t think I’ve ever cried that hard. And I probably have, I have to credit that heart for people in my life, but it’s just like, why am I crying so hard
Speaker 4 01:36:59 For that book? You know what I mean? Yeah. I remember I felt that way went in order of the Phoenix. That’s really annoyed about that. Yeah. That one was a tough one too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:37:07 So she then asked them to imagine a distant acquaintance, a real-world person that they perhaps see on a semi-regular basis, but don’t interact with that often then to imagine that person died to state how they would feel about them dying versus how they ought to feel about how them dying or how they think they ought to feel.
Speaker 4 01:37:28 You know, I don’t want to tell my acquaintances how I would feel if they died.
Speaker 3 01:37:33 Yeah. Well, you know, it’s just all about how our perceived social circle, you know what I mean? And so she, she and her colleagues found that, uh, for women, the results were overwhelmingly, geared toward fictional characters in that women reported a higher rate of grief for fictional characters than for a real-world world acquaintance. And that for the results were about the same. Now I personally am like, well, that might have something to do with a buffering of self-esteem and social projection. Like there is, um, I tried to find these guys, I don’t know what they’re called, but there’s a group of guys. They have a show on Snapchat and they’re called the something guys, the blank guys. I don’t remember. Maybe, maybe it is the try guys. Okay. And so is it four guys? Yeah. And there are. Okay. So yes. Okay. So what is the try guys?
Speaker 3 01:38:30 Okay. So they did a video where they did a mock shoot of like famous editorials, featuring women. You saw that one where they were like styled and then photo-shopped same as the women in the shoots. I think one of them was like Kim Kardashians, like naked painted in the desert where her back is arched and her butt is out, but she’s sitting down and he’s like, I don’t understand how anyone can a get into that position for the picture. And then you’re going to Photoshop me. Look, I wasn’t working so hard to even withhold that position, you know, like it’s not even real. Um, so then they compare the two pictures together and they like talk about how it’s like a completely unachievable version of themselves, you know? Um, now that I want to like, classify like gender in that way, in my opinion. But like, in my, in my opinion, I feel like there is like a correlation there because it’s much more much, I feel like it is higher scrutiny for women and female body people in general. So I, I found that really interesting that it’s like for women, we were like dying over fictional characters with cause that’s our perceived social stuff.
Speaker 0 01:39:31 Yeah. And because there’s no, like you said, there’s no rejection rejection, there’s no rejection or judgment either.
Speaker 3 01:39:38 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, so all of this was to prove that despite these fictional characters being, you know, fictional, they are a part of our perceived social circles and cognitively we react to them as if they are just as real as you and me. Wow. Yeah. I thought that that was so interesting. Cause I never really thought about what imaginary friends like do for development in kids. You know? So I did learn a lot about
Speaker 0 01:40:05 No. So I’m thinking about it too. Like, hi guys, I live far away from my family. All my friends moved away and I just moved into a new house by myself, which is a great house. I love it. However, it was a big adjustment and also it gets lonely out here in the middle of nowhere by myself. And so the way that I’ve been coping is one, we’re doing this podcast. So I get to hang out with you virtually. But then when I’m listening to us on the podcast, I hear us talking and it still feels like we’re hanging out virtually. And then I’ve also, you know, because I’m interested in podcasts in general. And now I want to like listen to other people’s podcasts to learn more and that kind of stuff. I’ve started listening to more of them. And it’s the same type of thing where like that listening to the other podcast and feeling like out with these people, even though I’m not actually hanging out with them, it’s helping a bait, those feelings of loneliness. Even though I do spend like 85% of my time by myself,
Speaker 3 01:41:09 That is exactly the point. Not that you spend all your time by yourself, but you know, I’m always here for you. Yeah. Um, no, but like, yeah, that’s another point that she made was that those reactions, and I know it’s like podcasts, but it’s really anything like, cause that’s what you’re saying, but it’s anything really that of a form of media that you’re consuming, you know, because she says that these reactions of how we respond to fictional characters also correspond with how we react to celebrities. Um, and so she poses the question saying, do we react to fictional characters that way? Or the way that we do cognitively, because we think they are real. Or do we cognitively react to celebrities in the same way because we are treating them as if they are a fictional character. Ooh,
Speaker 0 01:41:55 I like the second version better.
Speaker 3 01:41:58 It’s it’s just like, yeah. Which one is it? Why, why are we treating it that way? And why do we? And I think, I think it is the second one, because no matter how much you watch a person through media, you don’t actually know them. And you know, even you’re watching like interviews of like how they are, like you become attached to their persona and like how they portray themselves and what they’re putting out in the world without actually knowing them personally. But even by engaging in that media and that material, you can experience grief when they die or when something tragic happens to them, it affects you emotionally when you don’t actually know them. So even though they are real world people, they are a part of our perceived social circles. The way that, the same way that Harry Potter is. Yeah.
Speaker 0 01:42:44 That’s crazy also. That’s so funny. Cause yeah, I do feel like it’s very applicable cause I ha like I go to work and I hang out with some people, but like it’s still COVID and you know, yeah. I spend a lot of my time by myself, which is fine, but I’ve also become, I think I’ve eased into the being by myself more, a little easier because of the stuff like podcasts and I think podcasts is different than other media just because it does literally feel like you’re hanging out with these people. Like when I’m watching psych, like, I feel like I’m an outsider, you know what I mean? Because I need to,
Speaker 3 01:43:23 You just want to know them. You just want to like be there and go on the adventure.
Speaker 0 01:43:27 There’s no suspension of disbelief that I am in this situation with them. Whereas like, you know, I’m watching it on the screen and I’m seeing the things that they’re doing and they’re obviously somewhere else. And they’re obviously doing other things. However, when I’m listening to these podcasts, when specifically the ones that I really like, like, um, they will kill or the, keep it weird or, and that’s why we drink. It feels like I’m sitting there with them as we just bullshit about weird shit, right. Or crime, you know what I mean? So it’s like, yeah.
Speaker 3 01:44:00 And so I know you said or crime, but it sounded like
Speaker 0 01:44:03 I know. Um, no, but it, you know, I think that it can apply to, like you said, like all fictional characters, whereas unlike books, it’s the same way because like it’s happening on your head. So you feel like you’re there. Whereas in like movies don’t get me wrong. Like I love movies, but I don’t get that same level of attachment necessarily. Then I feel it with books or audio books or podcasts.
Speaker 3 01:44:30 Yeah. I feel like more so with movies, it’s like an attachment to like an experience that I’ve had. That’s similar and it’s not so much investment in the character or the person themself, you know?
Speaker 0 01:44:44 Um, although I will say in the books that become movies or shows and then the shows and before the books, do I E calling you out fucking game of Thrones? Like that one, I know you’ve never done it, but like, so I read the books, it’s attached to the characters that way. And then when they ended it, the way that they did, don’t worry. I won’t give any spoilers. I was just so much more emotional about it because yeah, it was a show, but they also started out as these characters that I went through these trials with.
Speaker 3 01:45:15 Yeah. People were all up in arms about that. And that’s just another sort of example of that kind of reaction. Yeah. Because
Speaker 0 01:45:24 It’s not just watching it, it’s like
Speaker 3 01:45:25 Doubling down on that because you’re attached to the book and the fictional characters while you’re reading it, then you’re seeing them being brought to life and then it doesn’t go the way that it’s supposed to have gone. And it’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I really, you know, I never actually considered like why people are reacting that way until, until now. Cause I haven’t seen game of Thrones and I didn’t get, I didn’t get, you know, caught up in it. Um, I was just late to the game and was lazy if I’m being honest. So
Speaker 0 01:45:55 Also late to the game and then I went through divorce. So I like use that to escape my, um, you know, my, my actual world. But yeah, I think, yeah, now that I’m thinking about it, I think that’s why it was so much worse feeling for everybody and like, and I’ve talked to other people about it and like I can’t rewatch it now and I’m not the only one that’s lost that thing for it. And I do, I think that the books have something to do with that, that extra connection it’s like, yeah. How that’s crazy. Also. I do feel like that’s really funny that it’s related to my current predicament in life.
Speaker 3 01:46:36 Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s just kind of, you know, I feel the same way. It’s like, I, you know, it’s like sometime, I mean, I don’t know I get that, but it’s like, we all, we all can relate to that, you know, listening to people or watching people or, you know, just invested, you
Speaker 4 01:46:50 Know, it’s like even the people that like read tablets, it’s like, it’s like the same thing you’re invested in something because you you’re, you’re having this reaction to it the same way. You know, it’s just, it’s, it’s just really interesting. Cause you don’t really think, I never thought about it that way, you know, but it, but it is the same reaction, you know,
Speaker 5 01:47:11 Actually what made me think about it was I was listening to keep it weird again. And they were talking about some crazy, one of their listeners wrote in to tell story she was from Australia and she prefaced her story with, Hey, I live in the middle of nowhere and I have a family, but I have all sons. I have a husband I work with mostly guys. So I’ve been listening to more female podcasts to get that sense of female friends, even though I was like, bro, that’s what I’ve been doing. Like that’s exactly what I’ve been doing. And so yeah, that’s what extra made me think about it this week. Cause I listened to that episode and I was like, Oh shit, that’s so true. That’s exactly what I, yep.
Speaker 4 01:47:53 Yeah. Hey man. You know, but it’s like, I, I do love a good pod and um, and I mean I’ve definitely felt the same way listening to podcasts as well. That’s it’s just a very interesting thing about it. So all that to say learned a lot of interesting things this week we sure did. Yeah. Um, also for anyone wondering I, the topic of schizophrenia did come up in my research. However, I did not personally feel like it directly applied to the concept of imaginary friends. Um, I do have one tweet that I’ve found, uh, one last little tweet, uh it’s by author and cartoonist Gerad Rosello. And it said my almost five-year-old son was playing with his imaginary friend. And when I asked him about it, he said, no, I am the imaginary friend. And now I have my next book idea.
Speaker 5 01:48:49 Oh my God. I love that so much.
Speaker 4 01:48:52 I loved that so much. I’m going to actually send you more pictures to post on our Instagram because you did not post the picture of the cave maps. So
Speaker 5 01:49:01 Throw that up. I forgot. Yeah, I
Speaker 4 01:49:03 Know. But I’ve got some creepy ones I know, but it’s like, I guess so. Yeah, there are a lot of interesting, uh, Ted talks on the subject of imaginary friends also that I highly recommend. So go ahead and check those out. Um, the one that I mentioned earlier was with Jennifer barns. There’s also a really good one that I watched, uh, by, uh, Evan kid, uh, Ted Sidney. And then there’s another one that I found with, uh, Andrew, Rob, Rob Mueller, Rob Miller. Oh, I don’t know how to say his last name, but his is why adults should have imaginary and he’s like a playwright and an artist of actor and he’s engaging. Yeah. Also since you mentioned
Speaker 0 01:49:48 The acting classes and stuff, like I’m thinking we need to start doing like acting exercises with Eby.
Speaker 4 01:49:54 Yeah, yeah. No, definitely. I’m down for that. Yeah. That’d be fun.
Speaker 2 01:50:02 So yeah.
Speaker 4 01:50:03 So I feel like we need to start saying either at the beginning or the end of the episodes, why we wondered about these things and I think it would be a cute little wrap up. I think it’s a, like, why did you wonder about LA Yoda was just cause Diana told you about it or like what made you want to do that?
Speaker 0 01:50:24 Um, I was looking, I knew we were doing something paranormal, so it was like, okay, I want to do some pants, something paranormal. And I actually had a different idea, but I scrapped it for a later date. Cause I think it’ll work a little bit later. And then I was like looking up creepy stories and I was like, no, these are clicking. And then one of my friends that I used to work with reached out to me and mentioned Diana’s name and was like, Hey, we all miss you come visit blah blah. And I was like, dang. You know, I miss Diana. She told me about these books and I was like, Oh yeah, that’s a good one. And it’s local. So I can like tie it in, you know, to the area and stuff like that. And then it was, it did not disappoint with the background stories. I was way excited to learn the extra stuff that I had no idea about. Yeah. Um, and the history behind it, because I always loved the history stuff, but yeah. That’s, that’s why I wondered about it. I was looking for something nice and creepy and um, man just stumbled across a great one.
Speaker 4 01:51:25 I was going to say, yeah, mine was inspired also through the sister subjects, uh, that we’re going to be throwing at you that we’re going to be subjecting you to every week more. Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh my God. Why didn’t I ever
Speaker 2 01:51:42 I’m two for two right now. Two for two.
Speaker 4 01:51:48 I, yeah, I was inspired by our little sister subject of paranormal and I scroll through the list and I was like, ah, what am I going to do? Because I was really thrown off because I didn’t want to do something paranormal. I wanted to do something else. And then she was like the TA. I was like, go ahead. And you can pick the topic this week. And then she said paranormal and supernatural, which by the way, let us announce our topics. So they don’t think we actually did that. So our topics are going to be paranormal and supernatural, True crime and history and science and nature. All right. So this week you got hit with the paranormal and supernatural, which I don’t know. I tried to make it paranormal, but I also feel like it was good. You know, the stuff that I’ve found was like it’s super and it’s natural. It could be super natural. Hey super it’s natural. It could be super natural.
Speaker 2 01:52:44 Oh,
Speaker 5 01:52:46 About staying in. Um,
Speaker 4 01:52:49 Wish I could get that face in there.
Speaker 5 01:52:52 I’m also kind of, I forgot what I was going to say. You broke me. Oh yeah. What are we going to do next week?
Speaker 4 01:52:59 I think next two weeks should be true. Crime and history.
Speaker 5 01:53:03 That’s what I was hoping you would say
Speaker 4 01:53:05 Data, data, data, data, data, data. I don’t know what song that is. Yeah. You got a good one. I got a good one and I, um, I didn’t wonder about it because of the theme. Let’s just put it that way.
Speaker 5 01:53:19 I had a good one that I wanted to do this. I don’t, like I said, paranormal. And then I realized that the paranormal thing that I was looking up, it was also really history related and I was like, God damn it. So that’s why you know exactly. Yeah. I am glad that I did this one and I think I will bring it up again another time. But uh, I’m a part two in the history episode, you know, you have me contemplating. I’m not going to lie
Speaker 4 01:53:47 Tempting, I guess.
Speaker 5 01:53:51 So. Yeah. Next week we’ll do true crime slash history. That’s going to be great. I think that’s, I really like the sister subjects thing.
Speaker 4 01:53:58 Yeah. Yeah. I really, I really like subjecting people to our sister ley mystical magic. Who ha I just feel like a witch.
Speaker 5 01:54:10 I just do. There’s a t-shirt I just feel like a witch. So yeah. Be on the lookout guys. We’re going to have a wanderlust, a Weegee board and a, I just feel like a witch t-shirt
Speaker 4 01:54:24 Yeah. We’re gonna start selling, um, prosthetic toes so that everyone can have one long toe. If you don’t, you can have one, if you like
Speaker 5 01:54:36 Or so you nevermind. We’ll put a prosthetic colon so you can re-enact the Christmas colon story. There you go. I don’t think it needs to be prosthetic
Speaker 4 01:54:46 Going a bit too far. Actually you can just be like a little silicone fake poop comes out, you know, blood pus, et cetera.
Speaker 5 01:54:54 Okay.
Speaker 4 01:54:58 The Christmas colon, colon sold separately. Christmas not included.
Speaker 5 01:55:10 Oh my God. Also this episode made me feel really good about myself when you were talking about the imaginary friends and pretending because we did so much pretending hell yeah. And also I hit a friend. I don’t know if he listens to this podcast, but he was like, your daughter still plays with toys. My son just does video games and I’m like, no, we pretend to all the time. Yeah. And how it’s good for her brain. Yeah.
Speaker 4 01:55:34 It’s good for her brain. Yeah. Um, Evan kids’ Ted talk is actually really good. And he started, he goes, saw and like talking about, um, why, uh, unstructured is so important for kids development and how you know, uh, bad it is that Western schools are focusing on standardized testing and then taking away a recess and what that does for the kids’ development. Um, I even wrote down in my notes when I was taking notes on his video, what kind of adults do we want today’s children to become?
Speaker 5 01:56:05 Ooh, really made me think what makes me think of that influence in that area. But it makes me think about too, that people that we have nowadays, and I think about some of the people I know, and I feel like I can pinpoint those who did not have enough creative play.
Speaker 4 01:56:26 Watch out guys. Sarah, continue.
Speaker 5 01:56:29 I can tell if you did not play enough as a child. You’re welcome.
Speaker 4 01:56:32 I don’t know. I feel like it, I feel like it should be a parent though.
Speaker 5 01:56:36 Also, um, one of my friends said she finally caught up on the podcast and said that she loved it because it felt like she was just hanging out while we were talking. And I was like, that’s the whole reason why I’ve listening to podcasts more too is the same type of thing. Yeah. That’s combat loveliness together, guys. We’re alone together. Everybody see welcome to a post 2020 world and this to get their lunch. You know, we’re really going to have to start recording videos because
Speaker 4 01:57:17 I have to sing it off key for copyright reasons,
Speaker 5 01:57:29 Backs everybody.
Speaker 4 01:57:31 Then that’s the show. Everybody. Thanks so much for tuning in, in this day and time and 2021, we are the mystic sisters on the one or less podcast. You can find us on Instagram at one ELA stop pod. You can also find us on Twitter. Allegedly at pod Wonderlust check out our website, the one or less and you can hit us up on Gmail, the wanderlust
Speaker 5 01:58:03 We’re also going to also on
Speaker 4 01:58:05 Facebook, wonder less podcast. You could also contact us on our website, send us ideas, um, or stories or just freaky things. Let us know. Maybe it’ll have like, make us wonder about something new and we love you all.
Speaker 5 01:58:20 Just talk to us. Cause I don’t know if you could tell by this episode, it’s lonely. I talked
Speaker 4 01:58:26 To her a lot guys. So
Speaker 5 01:58:32 I’m also, don’t forget. Please rate and subscribe, especially rate us on Apple podcasts. Spotify, thank you to everyone who has
Speaker 4 01:58:42 A right of this week, who shaped you so much and the w wonderful reviews. Thank you.
Speaker 5 01:58:47 We really do appreciate it. And if you just want to make our little heart thing, please leave us a five star review and you know, write something nice about why you love us.
Speaker 4 01:58:56 Hopefully clickety, clack and snippety snap. You know,
Speaker 5 01:59:02 It’s wrong with you, but, uh, yeah. Thank you guys so much for listening to us and we cannot wait to talk to you guys next time. also, that song is really good. Like every time I hear it, I’m like, fuck yes, it’s good. Right?
Speaker 4 01:59:30 Yeah, that was me. And like the first three days of making it, I was just like always everywhere. Like
Speaker 5 01:59:38 It’s so good.

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