A Sweet Latvian & Gothic Cinderella

Welcome back to The Wonderlust Podcast!

Say hay to the short-ay! This week’s wanderlust podcast episode is a shorty but a goodie. We discuss the origins of Electronic Voice Phenomenon, or EVPs, and the invention of the spirit box and how it evolved to what most people recognize today. We also take fun detours discussing our love and healthy skepticism of Ghost Hunters, as well as our personal experiences at Cassadaga Spiritualist Camp.

Thanks so much for listening to our rambles & wonderings! If you like what you hear, please take a moment to rate & subscribe. Also be sure to keep an eye out on social media!

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Speaker 0 00:00:01 I work out in the industry. I work out in the world. Okay. So in the world, in the world. Yeah. So I have to deal with flesh faced people.
Speaker 1 00:00:14 Why would you say it like that? That was like the girls
Speaker 0 00:00:19 Way. I could put it well to see their fleshy face,
Speaker 1 00:00:25 Stop
Speaker 0 00:00:28 Five and a half feet. It’s like, if I stand all the way back on the bar, I might be six feet away, but then we have these fucking dividers up. Now that just funnel the breath towards me. So I didn’t start wearing too. Yeah. I know. I started double masking cause everybody kept telling me to double mask. So I was like, all right, you know, or we’re in it to win it. I’m not trying to get some fleshy breath virus, you know,
Speaker 1 00:00:55 Fleshy. Nope. I maybe I just don’t like the word fleshy or flesh. I think maybe that’s where this is going wrong for me.
Speaker 0 00:01:06 I feel like only a few choice. People do God. That is hilarious.
Speaker 1 00:01:10 Yes
Speaker 2 00:01:14
Speaker 1 00:01:29 Okay.
Speaker 0 00:01:29 I just witnessed her taking a selfie while I was saying fleshy.
Speaker 1 00:01:35 Yeah. Worrying that extensively. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:01:37 I can tell you you’re doing a great job to like cackled, like a buffoon. That’s what we call a hard cap
Speaker 1 00:01:43 Back by the way. No AC no TMT MTM. Let’s let’s not have that be our trademark please. As hard pack pack. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:02:04 I had a guy at work tell me that my laugh was like so interesting. That’s what he told me. He goes, you’re loud. It’s just so interesting. And I lived it.
Speaker 1 00:02:13 That’s an insolvable. That’s what I felt like.
Speaker 0 00:02:16 I was like, Oh, thank you. Like that’s what I want to hear preach. And literally he’s like, no, no, no. I’m trying to like, you know, it’s like your voice just, you know, has this different tone. And it’s just, you know, it was a bit and I was like, literally just looking at him like, are you fucking kidding me? Then you just Snapchat at that to me. Are you kidding me twice?
Speaker 1 00:02:38 I’m the best tester. So yeah. Some dude told you your laugh was interesting. Huh?
Speaker 0 00:02:43 Yeah. But apparently it was a compliment. And I was like, okay, well now I’m just going to like hear my own lab echo in my head constantly. And so, yes, I know because when I laugh, like this is how I, that I became
Speaker 3 00:03:00 An adult. Okay. Some people know in different ways, you know, sometimes it’s a trip to the social security office and the DMV that’ll really change a person. Um, but for me it was like, when I realized that I sneezed like my dad and then I laughed like an old witch.
Speaker 1 00:03:23 That’s true.
Speaker 3 00:03:24 Because if someone really makes me laugh, it was like funny. When I was going out to comedy shows and stuff like that in Jacksonville, in the pre and the pre fleshy breath virus,
Speaker 1 00:03:34 God, please stop. That’s my favorite. Do you just love it? Because I hate it. No, that’s just a
Speaker 3 00:03:42 Bonus. That’s just a bonus Because it, that is like how I feel about being around people. And it’s like, so normalized to be like, Oh, you’re gross. You’re a person get away from me. And it’s like, that’s what I feel. It’s like, get your fleshy breath out of my face.
Speaker 1 00:04:00 Anyways, what the fuck was I saying? Uh, you were an adult because you can’t go. Which literally
Speaker 3 00:04:09 I wouldn’t realize it until like somebody had like, you know, like you’re recording a Snapchat or something like that. And I hear it back and it’s like,
Speaker 1 00:04:19 And I’m like, who the fuck is that?
Speaker 3 00:04:21 Hold ag in the back. Oh, it’s me. It’s me serving up a hard CAC. God,
Speaker 1 00:04:28 I still hate that though. No capitals. It’s short for cackle. Yeah. But anyways, obviously cackling runs in the family because I cannot stop myself or help it. It’s just how it happens.
Speaker 3 00:04:42 That’s just how we know that we’re adults, you know, it’s like some people get bombed mitzvahs or bar mitzvahs. We get a good, hard cackle.
Speaker 1 00:04:50 Here we go. It’s so much better. I was really concerned for a second. I don’t know if you saw the fear in my eyes, as you were saying it. I did see the way please. Don’t so yeah,
Speaker 3 00:05:05 I was going to do a bit about that back in the day
Speaker 1 00:05:07 Then. Yeah, that was my story. Uh, it’s hard. It’s hard out here. Oh, I still haven’t told you what I’m going to do yet. I know you haven’t. Oh, what’d you what’d you like to hear? Yeah. What are you doing?
Speaker 3 00:05:31 Tell me, let’s see. What are we talking about? What’s going on?
Speaker 1 00:05:35 So I decided to deep dive slash I was going to say Google hole, but that’s was going to sound terrible. It’s worse than hard pack. No, no, it’s not. It is no
Speaker 3 00:05:51 Sounds like a hard kick and the Google home
Speaker 1 00:05:53 Stop. I’m so sorry. I’m going to cut that out. Terrible.
Speaker 4 00:06:04 I feel like you won’t, but I guess we’re going to find out.
Speaker 1 00:06:07 So, uh, what are you doing this week? What are you going to be talking about? Well, I was
Speaker 4 00:06:12 Listening to our favorite podcast and I heard the term spirit box. I realized that I have no idea what that is. Oh, do you know what that is? No. Are you lying? Cause it looks like you’re lying. Are you sure? That’s just my face. Um, so yeah, I was listening to our favorite podcasts and they mentioned something about a spirit box and I’m like, after all the years of watching ghost hunters, I’ve literally never heard that term. So like, is it a special box where there’s like a little voice that comes out or something or like you put like sparkly magic in it and then ghost talk through it? I don’t know
Speaker 1 00:07:02 It the latter cause I hope so. I know, I wish it was.
Speaker 4 00:07:06 Um, so a spirit box or sounds so magical is really just a device to capture EVP. S so I’m going to go in a little, little sidetrack. Talk about what EVP is. Uh, EBP stands for electronic voice phenomenon. Um, so basically EDPs are just sounds that are found on electronic recordings that are interpreted as spirit voices, which we know from our religious watching of ghost hunters.
Speaker 1 00:07:42 It was an interesting word to choose to describe how much we watched ghost hunters. Is it inaccurate though? Cause I don’t think so. I don’t think so either. I don’t think so either so
Speaker 4 00:07:57 These sounds are recorded either unintentionally or intentionally. Um, and it was popularized by Paris psychologist. Constantine is re route dive. Yup. Excuse me. In the 1970s. Uh, I think he was a sweet, Oh, a Latvian pair of psychologist.
Speaker 1 00:08:24 He was a sweet Latvian,
Speaker 4 00:08:31 But anyways, anyways, back to that sweet lap VM thing. Yeah. Uh, who’s a para psychologist in the 1970s. Um, for the record scientists think that EVP electronic voice phenomenon is just Perry Parod. You dolia. Yeah. Uh, parades Aliyah. We’re gonna say it that way. It’s probably wrong. Um, which is basically where people interpret random sounds as voices. Um, so it’s like, so you know how, like, in your mind, if you see like a random pattern, your mind will interpret w likes to interpret random patterns as faces.
Speaker 0 00:09:19 Yeah. I feel like it’s similar to the thing where if you see a word with the letters jumbled, but the first and last letter are the same, then you can read it still. Yep. But there are some things that they have gotten that it’s so clear.
Speaker 4 00:09:35 Yeah. I, I am aware, I am aware. Um, or they think, Oh, they think it’s just this weird thing that we do where we interpret REM random sounds as voices and pseudoscience to which I put a comment on my notes that said rude, um, or yeah. Or it could be a Puffin Nia , which is similar, which is the spontaneous finding of connections or meaning in things that are random unconnected or meaningless, which like to me is like, I just think that’s like the scientist’s view on life in general. And that’s really,
Speaker 0 00:10:16 It is really depressing. And one thing, so I told you about the show on Netflix called surviving death. Yeah. Um, such cool show. And the first part about it is about near-death experiences. And one thing that this guy says is like, well, yeah, all, most of our research is based off of anecdotes and he goes, but that’s how most of science, like in scientific studies start, it starts from stories. It starts from reports. It starts from recordings that people, you know, have, and it goes from there. So I don’t know.
Speaker 4 00:10:56 So in my personal mind, it’s like, yeah, you know, you could sit there and claim that like these images are just images that are indoctrinated during your life, that your brain plays because that’s what you expect to see before you die. Or some shit like that. Like, I’m just
Speaker 0 00:11:12 Going to talk about all that. They talk about all
Speaker 4 00:11:14 That. Okay. But like, yeah, I guess maybe, but also that doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean anything either.
Speaker 0 00:11:22 Yes. A hundred percent. But he actually, I literally like the part that I just watched before we started doing this was just, he was saying that like the, how people say that, um, pain, like medication has something to do with it. But then they proved that that actually it inhibits NDEs and people who have like lots of pain medication and, you know, like sort of that stub doing medication, uh don’t experience or report in India because they’re so subdued. Um, so that’s out of it. And then they say that it’s like a, of oxygen, but there have been recorded cases of, um, patients that have had 0% oxygen to the brain, 0% recorded brain activity and have still, um, had an N D E. Yeah. And his whole point is like, well, when you’re looking at just brain activity and just physical characteristics, you’re completely negating the fact that consciousness is a factor.
Speaker 4 00:12:17 Yeah. And that’s one thing that like, I mean, yeah, if you’re a scientist and that’s how you want to view life, but everything is random and there’s not meaning in anything and everything is unconnected or meaningless, like cool for you, bro. But like, I don’t know. Maybe I sound like a crazy person.
Speaker 1 00:12:34 I live my life that way. That’s depressing as fuck. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:12:39 Last little tangent, but
Speaker 4 00:12:42 No, I okay.
Speaker 1 00:12:44 You’re right here. You’re right. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:12:48 So I was at work surprise, surprise. And there was this couple that was like very clearly on a first date, but they had like worked together and known each other and they worked in the medical field. Right. So the whole time I’m hearing them talk about like working, like within like the surgery department, yada, yada, yada going back and forth, back and forth between departments, like, you know, knowing each other at certain like, you know, internships or whatever, you know, it’s like in there kind of like story of like how they got to this point and they’re talking about the people that they interact with and like the doctors that they interact with and like their level of interaction with like patients. I mean, they weren’t like saying anything like specific, but they’re just sort of talking about their experience. And then all of a sudden she’s like, have you seen the show, the
Speaker 4 00:13:34 And then you jumped immediately into their conversation?
Speaker 0 00:13:37 No, I didn’t. I held myself from that because I wanted to leave.
Speaker 1 00:13:42 Um, but I
Speaker 0 00:13:44 Was polishing a glass and I looked at her like so hard because I was so like, what are you about to say about this? Cause I expected some sort of like cold response of like, yeah, whatever. It’s probably not real. And it’s like all mumbo jumbo about near death experiences and whatever. And she starts going on and she’s like, yeah, it’s really interesting. And it’s like this weird new perspective that I just didn’t think about before. And then she stops talking because she realizes that I’m staring at her.
Speaker 1 00:14:14 I’m going to go walk over here.
Speaker 0 00:14:19 Cause I got something really important to do and I left.
Speaker 1 00:14:25 Okay.
Speaker 0 00:14:26 What has ever wondering what it’s like to have an introverted bartender come and see me? We’ll give you an experience. You’ll never forget.
Speaker 1 00:14:36 Okay.
Speaker 0 00:14:37 So anyways, so I thought that that was refreshing, that she was talking about the way like, based on like what their job was. And I was like, Oh, that’s really interesting that you would even be interested in that. Like that’s cool. So, so me, so yeah, but anyways, so this guy was really cold and didn’t
Speaker 3 00:14:52 Have any hope for life.
Speaker 4 00:14:53 No, there’s no meaning in life or, you know, anything really. So it’s just a really super fun way to live, I guess, I guess. But yeah. Scientists also say, you know, that since these clips or the phenomenon are created during attempts to boost the clarity of an existing recording, it might explain some of the EVP because sometimes they use methods that is like re sampling or frequency, isolation, noise reduction, or enhancement, which can cause the recording to take on qualities that, um, significantly differ from those that were present in the original recording. That makes sense. Yeah. Um, which like, you know, I can kind of see because there’s so many ways to manipulate, you know, recordings nowadays. Like, and like, while I have heard some really cool EDPs, sometimes I’m like, you guys are just grasping at straws. Oh yeah. There’s sometimes. Or like, they’re like he sang the Lord’s prayer and I’m like, that’s white noise though. Like that’s what it is now.
Speaker 3 00:15:59 Right. When it’s literally like an EVP, that’s like, and they’re like, he said, my name is Nathaniel Williams and I’m like, that’s so not any kind of sound that just happened. So
Speaker 4 00:16:13 We love ghost hunters, but we are also haters
Speaker 3 00:16:18 Haters. I say that we, you know,
Speaker 4 00:16:21 I shouldn’t, uh, you know, uh, we have a healthy,
Speaker 3 00:16:27 The dose of skepticism because it’s like, you know, as much as I do want to believe in like cool and supernatural and like mystical and you know, I just, I like, I like to, I’d like to believe there’s something extra about life that maybe is beyond our perception or understanding basically. But I am going to take it with a healthy dose of salt
Speaker 4 00:16:46 Because the reality is it’s like a show like that still go, they gotta make a show. They gotta make a show, they gotta have the drama. And you know, they got to keep the interest. So like, yeah,
Speaker 5 00:16:59 Yeah, we love them. But
Speaker 4 00:17:03 As she says, we also have a healthy dose of skepticism or we feel like our skepticism is a healthy dose.
Speaker 3 00:17:09 Just want it to be like, to a point where it’s like you, like, I can’t, you know, it’s the whole reasonable doubt, you know, if I like can say that I don’t have, you know, any sort of reasonable doubt of that being true or untrue, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Really. But I know
Speaker 4 00:17:29 It, it makes sense though. I’m totally on board.
Speaker 3 00:17:33 Yeah, man, if you’re ever looking for skeptics, the best place that I have found skeptics to immediately jump on shit is under the ghosts, subreddit people will post some crazy cool videos, pictures, and
Speaker 0 00:17:50 You’re like, Holy shit. And literally like the first thousand comments or like ways that that could have been faked or ways that that could have been manipulated or like it could have been dust. It could have been this, it could have been that, you know, and it’s just like, it honestly gives me hope because I’m like, yeah, that’s, you know, they’re not wrong, but yeah,
Speaker 4 00:18:08 Herbs, I feel like 90% of the time is fucking dust or a bug in the air
Speaker 0 00:18:13 Until I see a goddamn or Blake float, like Casper in front of my fucking face. Like I don’t believe that you can capture an orb. Like, unless it’s something really like a crazy, I know, I dunno. I still can’t. Yeah. It’s hard for me to get on board with the orbs.
Speaker 4 00:18:30 It’s just dust or bugs. Like, come on guys, like use your brain anyways. That’s a whole nother thing. Um, so anyways, the very first electronic voice phenomenon recordings have, uh, originated with the use of tape recording equipment with cassettes. Um, but you know, with poorly aligned erasure and recording heads, sometimes the, it wouldn’t erase the previous recordings completely. So when you played it back, you would hear voices that way too. That’s a way to debunk it, but still, um, so this would allow a small percentage of previous content to be superimposed on top of a new silent recording. Kind of like, you know, like double exposure, photographs,
Speaker 0 00:19:18 Recordings,
Speaker 4 00:19:19 Some people who are super into EVP listening claim that, listening to it, it was an acquired skill kind of like learning a new language, which like, yeah, I don’t love that idea because then it’s like, I don’t know,
Speaker 0 00:19:37 You know what that makes me think of what that makes me think of like Somali AEs, which like, I’m sure that there is like, I’m sure that there are people that can tell the difference between wines. I’m sure there are. But I also know that there have been like, you know, pranksters out there that will like do like a fake tasting with Somalis and do boxed wine and they fucking make up the same goddamn shit. And they’re like, yeah, I know this. I can tell this aged oaky, buttery finish. And then they like reveal it. And they’re like, this is a fucking boxed wine
Speaker 4 00:20:14 That’s like with, um, I feel like artists do a lot of the same thing. Like, Oh, you know, I put these lines on a paper to represent the linear fashion in life and how, you know, like nobody breaks out of the box anymore. We’re all just following these lines like ants and like they’ll draw like three lines of a paper and you know, the fucking art world eats it up for the record. I went to school for art and I saw this shit in real life. So I’m not just a,
Speaker 0 00:20:48 I’m an educated hater,
Speaker 4 00:20:50 I’m an educated hater because it really fucking bothers me because people would put in no effort, but then bullshit their way through explaining their shitty art. And
Speaker 0 00:21:00 Why do I feel like Andy Warhol paved the fucking road for that shit?
Speaker 4 00:21:04 Well, that’s a whole nother topic about modern art that I just can’t get behind because yeah. So anyways, back to EDPs electronic voice phenomenon, um, a professor named Christopher French, who’s a skeptic is quoted as saying paranormal investigation and paranormal phenomenon in general has always been associated with whatever latest form of technology has been around. He says specifically pointing to the very first reports of ghost photography that occurred when photography or when cameras began to gain popularity. And it’s now easily explained as double exposure, which to be clear, I do think is a fair point because as much as I do think there are some really interesting MVPs out there. I also think there’s a huge pool of very open to interpretation slash faked EBP.
Speaker 0 00:22:03 Oh yeah. Yeah. Of course like the art world. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:22:07 Sorry. I can’t, I’m never going to get over that guys. Uh, anyways, um, in 1950 a guy named Friedrich Jurgenson. All right. Yeah. I’m just gonna assume is maybe a nice Swedish person. Yeah. Um, was, this is the cutest thing he was playing with his cassette recorder in his backyard trying to record songbirds stop. I know it was cute. A little thing. And he played it back to hear the voices of his dead father and wife calling for him. So he was really intrigued by that and started experimenting more with cassette recorders and published a book in 1967, titled radio contact with the dead.
Speaker 0 00:22:58 I love this. Okay. Um, so real quick. So, so, you know, I had this most, the most sinister laugh. I think I could conjure up when I found this out, but so you know how we stayed in like the haunted places that we could find that were the cutest and the coolest, right? Yep. Yep. Okay. So I am going to go to stay at this place in Saratoga Springs. And literally I Googled, I was like, Oh, like, what are some haunted places in Saratoga Springs? And it was like the most haunted place in Saratoga Springs is the mansion where you’re about to go stay. And I was like, ah, how do I get a Weegee board delivered Amazon, Amazon prime
Speaker 4 00:23:54 Gonna say, duh,
Speaker 0 00:23:56 Mom was like, you should do a seance.
Speaker 4 00:24:00 I can’t believe mom said that mom 10 years ago would have been like, don’t bring that. Don’t put that into my house. Well, I will say to you right outta here, right?
Speaker 0 00:24:10 Yeah, yeah. To be fair, that house needed a lot of Sage, but, uh,
Speaker 4 00:24:15 That’s very true.
Speaker 0 00:24:17 But no, my first thought was like, I wonder if like I could just like get up in the middle of the night and do some like EDPs, like sit in the bathtub and be like,
Speaker 4 00:24:27 Okay. But, so this was, I was going to mention this later, but this was a good part to mention this. There, there are actually apps for ghost hunting that you can really. Oh man.
Speaker 0 00:24:40 Oh my God. Stop. I’m about to have an investigation on my hand
Speaker 4 00:24:44 And there’s one called ghost radar classic. Oh my God. I gotta write these down. Hold on. Yep. And then there’s another one called ghost something. Although that one seems more lame, but the ghost radars, when that was mentioned by our favorite podcasts and I guess they used it, uh, I’m assuming I haven’t used it yet because as a, even though I have a healthy dose of skepticism, I do currently live in a house by myself. I don’t want to record in my house because I’m a weirdo. So they do. You just never know, you know, but yeah, that’s the modern predict, like a projection now progression of EVP stuff and you know, the modern spirit box, which I’ll talk about in a minute, but that’s, they have apps and stuff like that now for your phone.
Speaker 0 00:25:35 So now the cynic and skeptical skip tease mode that is inside my brain is like, well, did they develop the app? So where it already has like pre recorded noises and stuff that like get added into your recordings that way you believe it more.
Speaker 4 00:25:51 I, you know, I don’t know. Yeah. I haven’t used it yet because like I said, I didn’t want to use it in my house. And because of COVID, I’m either at my house or at work, so yeah. Um, next time though, I would do a shoot in an abandoned building. I will bring my phone with me and try out the app. Yeah, you should. So 1971, a Latvian psychologist named Constantine, rout dive, who I mentioned earlier, I
Speaker 0 00:26:21 Was going to say, this is the same suite lap ban, right? Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:26:23 So he heard about this guy who did the cassette recorder in the nineties in 1950. And he further developed and elaborated on the techniques of the guy who was trying to record his birds and hurt his dead father and wife calling for him. Uh, so he drank Yohanas Berg. Yup. Your jerks Jurgensen. Okay. Okay. So, uh, Constantine route, dive rowdy. I don’t, I don’t know. Sorry. I’m sorry, everyone. Apparently I’m really bad at pronouncing anything. Okay. So in 1971, this little lovely Latvian Paris psychologist worked to, uh, develop and elaborate more on the techniques with the cassette recorder. He released his own book in 1971, but he admitted that sometimes the ghost didn’t always speak clearly. They didn’t always speak in the same language. Sometimes they would change languages in the middle of the sentence or even speak backwards would just kind of like,
Speaker 0 00:27:27 That’s very the Beatles of them.
Speaker 4 00:27:30 Well, stop it. I don’t want to think about that. So I found an article from the Atlantic, which was like the broken technology of ghost hunting, I think is what it was called. It was very like obviously skeptical, which made it interesting read. So here’s a quote from it. Electronic voice phenomenon have continued to rank among the most prominent quote unquote evidence offered of the paranormal paranormal activity. It seems precisely because humans are hardwired to dredge, meaning out of chaos. Wow. Evolutionarily, we have long needed to discern the sight or sound of a predator despite its camouflage, which has led us to look for patterns where they might not be immediately evident the quirks and shortcomings of technology plays directly into this biological need, throwing out random, static, and noise. That is prime to be transmitted into meaningful signals. Ghost hunters, work through confirmation bias, looking for proof of the paranormal. They will find it in anything but most readily in static jibberish and a rata. I don’t know what that is. Technological noise in which we are hard wired to find false positives.
Speaker 0 00:28:50 So yeah, I want to meet like the person that wrote that article for the Atlantic, who was like, who pissed off they’re like boss and the boss was like, you know, I know you fucking hate ghost. I’m going, gonna make you do an article on it.
Speaker 4 00:29:03 So he, Oh yeah. It’s the broken technology of ghost hunting by Colin Dickey written in 2016. Yep. Which is funny that he hates ghost hunting so much because he wrote a book called ghost land in America where yeah. Gostlin and American history and haunted places. So like okay. Um, but yeah, so I just thought that quote was really funny and super, uh, like dripping with hatred. Yeah. Wonderful. Yep. So in 1980 there was a man named William O’Neil who constructed the spirit calm. Um, this was okay. I’m not going to lie. I found weirder shit than I expected when I was looking this stuff up. Like, so he claims that he built this device, the spirit calm, she specifications received psychically from George Mueller, a scientist who had been dead for six years. He claimed to be able to have two way conversations with ghosts. And he provided specifications to build this device for free to researchers. However, oops, go ahead.
Speaker 0 00:30:21 I, what I want to know. Right. Okay. So like I did that whole bit about Slenderman and they’re like, there’s no way that these girls like had any sort of communication with Slenderman. They’re obviously psychotic. They had a psychotic break, you know what I mean? Um, this dude is like, I spoke to this very specific scientist and he gave me plans psychically to do this. And here you go. And no one was like, I know it wasn’t violent, but still, you know, Oh, one’s like, Oh, let’s stick him in an asylum for the rest of his life because he’s obviously fucking hysterical. Well mean
Speaker 4 00:30:58 Exactly. And like, again, he provided the specifications for people to build the device. However, no one is ever known to be able to replicate his results. Although his partner later claimed it only worked for O’Neill because he had mediumistic abilities that formed a crucial part of the loop that made the system work. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:31:25 And I also just want to say, like, I want to believe in mediums. I want to believe in like, Voyance I want to believe in people that can connect with like another plane. Like I desire to believe that that is true.
Speaker 4 00:31:41 True. However, there are so many of them that are disappointing.
Speaker 0 00:31:44 There’s so many that are disappointing. And then there are just so many of them, how was there so many of them, how about so many people that have this like fucking talent that you can’t, and that’s, that’s another thing that you can’t like disprove you can’t disprove that somebody is because you really can’t prove that they are to begin with. So it’s very frustrating, but it’s like, yeah.
Speaker 4 00:32:05 Yeah. I mean, I completely agree because I’m right there with you. Um, although I did go to a medium, once I tell you about this, now I went to a medium in Cassadaga in Florida. Me too. So I don’t remember who I saw. And I went when I was, I was engaged at the time. Like she’s like probably 21. Yeah, look, it does twinsies without even knowing it. Okay. Um, also just FYI for everyone’s knowledge, we are a couple of years apart, but really I think that Emily is like the closest I will ever get to a twin.
Speaker 3 00:32:49 Well, like literally I’m your only fucking sibling.
Speaker 4 00:32:53 I also just mean that we’re very similar. God damn cottage you. So anyway, I went to this medium and here are the worst. Why do I tell you things? I love it. I am the closest thing that you’ll get to at 29. You’re such a Butthead. I wish that I had never said that. Please edit that out. I know you’re not gonna hear the worst. So I went to this medium and Cassadaga and um, I handed her my engagement ring. She asked me to hand her something super personal. And I don’t remember the whole conversation. Cause obviously we talked for a while, but she said one that I had not met the love of my life yet. And I was like, huh, well, that’s my engagement rings. So, and then here I am divorced. Yeah. So I was like super annoyed at her and now I’m divorced. So like, I guess she told me. And then, um, yeah, thing she told me is that she saw a lot of suitcases in my future that I would travel a lot for my career and that my career would be important to me, which is super interesting. I mean, I haven’t traveled a lot this year because,
Speaker 3 00:34:20 But in general
Speaker 4 00:34:21 I would need to at least do some traveling for my career. So yeah, it was a, you know, it’s very interesting years later, but I remember being like, wow, what a B, she was completely wrong. And yeah. So anyways, that was the time I went and saw a medium.
Speaker 3 00:34:39 So when I went, I went with three other people and um, we did like, we got like a group rate cause we, uh, we were on our way to Tampa, to a concert. And uh, we decided to stop in Cassadaga and get a reading because like that’s when you do, when you live in Florida and you drive past Cassadaga, you’re like, fuck, it might as well stop and get spooked. And um, so we went in and every single person had like this like touching experience, they’re all like fucking crying and like being real weird. And I’m just like, cool. I don’t know what this means to you, but obviously a lot at least. Um, and she gets to me and she’s like, so I see this big red dog and almost like
Speaker 4 00:35:27 Clifford, that’s fine. Um, is there an animated version of me? Oh my God. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:35:38 It was weird. And so I was like trying to think of like dogs that I’d met. And I was like, trying to think of like, like jazz, you know, or like other dogs that like possibly could fit that description. And she was like, no, it’s a, like a big dog with like pointy ears and like short red hair, like Charlie. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:35:58 Wow. Okay. That’s weird. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:36:03 And did you know that before that all happened? Like not before the Cassadaga thing, this was after the Cassadaga before? Um, cause like when she was talking to me, she was like this dog, you know, it’s really close to you. It means a lot to you and it’s just trying to protect you. And I was like, cool, sorry you got the wrong dog. Or like the wrong girl, like, sorry. I’m like blocked psychically, but like you picked up somebody else’s Juju and that’s not about me.
Speaker 1 00:36:33 I was going to say, I love how we both were like, sorry, you’re wrong. And then you clearly know years later. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:36:43 And then yeah, a few years later and it’s like, I met Charlie, but when I met Charlie, like I met Charlie before I met. Really?
Speaker 1 00:36:51 Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:36:52 It was at like this album release party for a friend of mine who was in a band and they were so good. Oh my gosh. And um, I thought you were being sarcastic for a second there. No, no, they really were. I have their literal like record album. Um, I love them. They disbanded since, but anyways, that’s not the point. The point is, is that they were having an album release party and I was there with some of my friends that I had gotten Cassadaga with and this dog came up to me and then like, and was just big and walking around. And I was like, well, that’s really weird. I didn’t put two and two together until like years later. And I was like, that’s right. Because one of my friends who was there, like mentioned it to me and they’re like, yeah, I always thought it was weird that like Charlie looked like that. And I was like, Charlie looks like that.
Speaker 1 00:37:37 Oh my God. Uh, yeah.
Speaker 3 00:37:41 Very sweet dog. Very sweet girl. But yes. So not really sure about that, but that’s my only experience really with like a medium or like a spiritualist or whatever they call themselves at the Cassadaga spiritualist camp.
Speaker 1 00:37:53 Yeah. That’s um, that’s when I, um, I wonder like that was my only experience actually with a medium and also I slightly wonder if we saw the same lady.
Speaker 3 00:38:08 Did you have like Sandy blonde hair? Was it long? No, but she could have gotten a haircut, but it was like Sandy blonde and she was kind of like broad shouldered, older woman. She could have been like in her sixties when I met her.
Speaker 1 00:38:24 I mean, I feel like you’re describing like 60% of Florida at this point. So like,
Speaker 3 00:38:28 Yeah, it could have been like any, any person that was there, which if you ever are in Florida, like take a visit
Speaker 0 00:38:36 And uh, see what, see what happens, you know?
Speaker 4 00:38:39 Hey Cassadaga was pretty cool. I would just in general I did. Yeah. Um, I’m like wishing that I was doing
Speaker 0 00:38:47 Cassadaga this week because
Speaker 4 00:38:51 It would be, but yeah, don’t, don’t take that
Speaker 0 00:38:54 Also for sure. Probably the best way to prank me in life is to pay a random person, to be a medium and to come up to me and tell me some bogus shit that like, there’s no way they would’ve known, but like someone in my life would be like, Oh, I know all this shit. And she’ll get really freaked out by this
Speaker 4 00:39:15 Noted.
Speaker 0 00:39:19 It’s like, I know I to set myself up for that, but it’s just like, yeah, that is the, that is for sure an easy way for me to be like, yeah. So a medium came up to me and basically told me that my life was crazy. And like, yeah, guys, I’m going to tell you all about it. Like, no, I would fall right into that trap
Speaker 4 00:39:35 Again, noted. I don’t know what I’m going to do with that, but I’m going to find something to do with it when you leased all that information away for later. Yeah. Um, yeah. So he had this spirit come and nobody else could ever replicate his results. Right. So then we come along to the spirit box. What was true was created in 2000 by a guy named Frank something. Sometimes it’s also called the ghost box or Frank’s box, which is weird. Yeah, I know. So I found this one article on the site called sinister coffee and creamery.com. Um, yeah. It’s hold on. I’m going to get to that. But anyways, the quote says a spirit box is a device that rapidly sweeps the frequency channels of radio stations, creating a white noise effect. This is said to allow spirits, to use energy, to manipulate it to form words and phrases clear sounds that are sometimes heard as intelligent responses can be caught. Well, the device scans a multitude of radio stations, it is thought the fastest sweep, the clear the information, which to me seems good. What seems questionable?
Speaker 0 00:40:52 So they’re like scanning radio stations and like picking out quote unquote clear words and discipling a message. Right?
Speaker 4 00:40:59 Yeah. That’s kind of what I’m getting also. Um, so Frank also claims to have received instructions for his design from the spirit world who also informed him that he was a purple princess from a planet called play eighties. Yup. Yup. So he, um, so bold statement, Frank. Yep. So then he gave the device to the people that the spirits told him to give it to and gave it free of charge to paranormal researchers, critics of the device say that it’s highly subjective and incapable of being replicated since it relies on radio noise in any meaningful response. So user gets is purely coincidental, coincidental or result of imagining, which is what they said about any EDPs. But this spirit box or ghost box is popularized by ghost adventures. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:42:01 Before, when we were talking about like being skeptical about things, it’s like absolutely, absolutely everything that they do on that show. I can be like, yeah, they could have just done that. Oh, you got scratched and you were pointing the camera at the two other people. Oh, I wonder how you got scratch
Speaker 4 00:42:18 So dramatic too. Like I just cannot with them. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 0 00:42:25 City, city of D who shh. Separately city not included.
Speaker 4 00:42:30 He also, um, I just can’t, I love how you’re laughing at your own jokes.
Speaker 0 00:42:35 I’m laughing because you just are breezing right on by that. You’re just like, and he also, um,
Speaker 4 00:42:41 Well he has douche-y hair too. That’s all I was going to get that.
Speaker 0 00:42:44 Oh my God. It sticks straight out like a shingle from our roof.
Speaker 4 00:42:51 Yes, exactly. Of lawful. Yeah. So I had to put that in there cause it’s popular as by ghost adventures. What, remember when we tried to watch it at the mansion, it was fucking just
Speaker 0 00:43:04 Also, I love how you’re just like, remember we had tried to watch it at the mansion. Like
Speaker 4 00:43:08 It was a mansion. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:43:10 Most of my free time in mansion. So big deal. Hoping that I have a close encounter.
Speaker 4 00:43:16 Yeah. Yeah. That’s that’s the, you know, the spirit of God, there’s the old So anyways, um, anyways sinister coffee and Creamery. I had to do a little bit about those cause I was like, what is this place? Exactly. Yeah. Um, they do coffee and ice cream. The creators are Kelly and Michelle Calla her, uh, they founded it in 2018. They’re married. Um, they also, so they do coffee and ice cream, but then also investigate haunted houses and have a blog for it. Um, yeah. I can love that. I know those goals right there.
Speaker 0 00:44:05 Yeah. No, that’s awesome. That’s my, what I know about them,
Speaker 4 00:44:09 That’s my goal in life is to like, let me somehow, you know, join my passion of like crafting as what I imagined for myself and ghosts that that’s what needs to happen. Yeah. So yeah. Back to like the spirit box thing. I’m so sorry. I just had to like go on that little tangent with the sinister coffee and Creamery. Sorry.
Speaker 3 00:44:32 I keep tangenting with you.
Speaker 4 00:44:34 No, but it just seemed like the perfect, like I’m like, there’s no way I can read about this sinister coffee and Creamery. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:44:40 And not talk about it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:44:43 Oh, just the cutest little thing. Yeah. Anyways. So in 1997, somebody named in months, Paris, who is the department of psychology at the university of Western Ontario. Um, did experiments using EBP methods that were used by our Latvian friend? Constantine, Raul dive rowdy Eve. I don’t know how you spell it. R a U D I V E. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Um, so they turned on a radio to an empty frequency and over 81 sessions recorded more than 60 hours of audio. Um, during that time a person would either sit in silence or ask questions of any potential EBP sources. However, like did they do this in a haunted house? Or did they just do this at the college? That’s my question anyways. So they said that some, there was some voices, but they were too few and far between to represent viable data and too wide to interpretation.
Speaker 4 00:45:56 Um, here’s a quote while we did replicate UVP in the weak sense of finding voices on the audio tapes, none of the phenomena found in our study was clearly anomalous, wait, let alone attributable to distant carnet beings. Hence we have failed to replicate EBP in the strong sense. Uh, the findings were also published in the journal of scientific exploration in 2001 and included a literature review. So I don’t know, like, I feel like if you’re just in a recording studio and you just have it going like, yeah, that would be boring and maybe it’s not haunted. So maybe you won’t get anything. I don’t know. So in 2005, the journal of the society for psychical research published a report by a paranormal investigator named Alexander, Mick Ray, um, Mick Ray conducted recording sessions using a device of his own design that generated EVP, which also like, why do you need your own design? This is like 2005. There are voice recorders around that you could just like pick up at office Depot.
Speaker 3 00:47:07 Yeah, no, that’s totally fair. And it’s also like these other two sound like they would only work for the person who invented them. You catch my drift. Yeah, exactly. Gives me like a Fox sisters. Wow,
Speaker 4 00:47:17 Exactly. So in an attempt to demonstrate the different individuals would interpret EVP recordings in the same way, Mick Ray asked seven people to compare some selections to a list of five phrases he provided and to choose the best match. So in his experiment he would like play audio and then he’s like, okay, which of these five options do you think? Sounds the most like it, um, in grades make Ray said the results of the listening panels indicated the selections were of paranormal origin. So I’m assuming by that, that means that most people selected a similar answer, which like,
Speaker 3 00:47:56 Yeah, but it’s, you’re giving them five options instead of just saying, listen to this, tell me what you hear. Yeah, exactly. You’re very much setting themselves up to be like, Oh, it’s going to be one of these five. So I’m, you know, it’s like your mind takes a different path at that point. Yeah,
Speaker 4 00:48:11 No, I completely agree. Um, so nowadays, apparently aside from ghost adventures, um, most people just use portable digital recorders. I E what they use and ghost hunters, why we never heard them mention it, but a short Google adventure, um, revealed that you can still purchase spirit boxes on Amazon and everywhere
Speaker 3 00:48:34 Of how everything cooking comes back to Amazon,
Speaker 4 00:48:37 Everything. Um, and they range from about $20 to $140. And a lot of them have good reviews. I don’t know. So, um, yeah, that is my adventure into the spirit box and EDPs. And would you call
Speaker 3 00:48:54 That the spirit box soap box?
Speaker 4 00:48:57 I guess
Speaker 3 00:48:58 The spirits soap box, the soapy spirits.
Speaker 4 00:49:02 That’s what I was going to say. Yes. It was exactly what I was going to say. Oh,
Speaker 3 00:49:08 I saw it percolating in your Mo in your mind. Yeah. I was going to say in your Moraine
Speaker 4 00:49:14 Marine Marine, but yeah, I had, uh, I definitely had fun looking to step up and, you know, we’ve watched a lot of ghost hunters and stuff like that, but like I’ve never really like looked into like the actual history or definition or where the stuff came from. So it was fun for me to look up.
Speaker 3 00:49:33 No, that is really good to know. I like to see it’s like, this is why I love the way that your mind works, because it teaches me about things that like, I would never consider, you know, someone tells me like a term and I’m like, okay, it’s this term, you know, I’m like, just like until exactly. It’s like until recently this is going to sound so dumb. That’s not, and that’s put it out there. I didn’t realize that you could drive on the rumble strip if you can’t see that never occurred to me. Like if I couldn’t see when I was driving and even in Florida, too, there’s sort of, there’s a shoulder rumble strip, you know, it’s like, there were plenty of times where I could not see in terrible thunderstorms and I’m literally just following the person’s headlights ahead of me. And that’s, that’s how I drove in conditions like that. And in the snow, you know, it’s like, especially if you’re driving at night, you’re not guaranteed that you’re going to have someone in front of you and never occurred to me to drive on the rumble strip. And that’s how you can tell where the road is, which is like
Speaker 4 00:50:34 A lot of sense. That’s so funny. Yeah. Duh
Speaker 3 00:50:38 Like a hundred percent. Uh, but that’s another one that’s like, my point is like, you know, you give me an acronym for something and you’re like, Oh, it’s an EVP. It’s electronic voice phenomenon bank. And I’m like, Oh, okay.
Speaker 4 00:50:49 Yeah, no, I mean,
Speaker 3 00:50:50 That’s, as far as my mind goes into it, I don’t question it at all.
Speaker 4 00:50:53 But that’s why we started this podcast is for all the things that we like randomly thing back. Cause this is the weird shit that I wonder at night and listening to the podcast. And I’m like, what the fuck is a spirit box? Like they talking about. Although again, I do wish it was something more magical, just like some glitter, some Sage and I don’t know something else in it.
Speaker 3 00:51:20 Um, that was good.
Speaker 4 00:51:24 I’m glad you liked it though. I feel like it went down a couple of unrelated rabbit holes, but like, I felt like I couldn’t talk about the spirit box without also talking about MVPs. So in actuality, I feel like I accidentally covered two topics anyways.
Speaker 3 00:51:40 You know, it’s like, it’s funny. Cause you did say spirit box and I know that’s what we were talking about, but in my mind I was like, Oh yeah, you covered DVPs
Speaker 4 00:51:47 Because I had, I felt like I had to explain it because you know,
Speaker 3 00:51:51 It’s a different word for the same thing.
Speaker 4 00:51:53 What about EBP is, is the phenomenon. The spirit bus is like the main thing is the specific tool that those weird guys got from psychic tools. You know, they got the instructions from alleged, the spirit world. And one of them was told that he was actually a purple princess. So, you know, I,
Speaker 3 00:52:15 I hope that he wrote like an autobiography because I want to read more about the purple princess.
Speaker 4 00:52:20 Hey, I mean, I wrote his name down, so you know, you should look them up. When was like Michelle and Frank crap.
Speaker 3 00:52:28 Oh yeah. His name was Frank something. What was it?
Speaker 4 00:52:31 So we have, Oh, well you Mo Neil was the first guy who came up with the spear calm. Um, and he did it to specifications received psychically from George Mueller scientists who had been dead for six years. And then the spirit box was created by Frank somethin who claimed to have seen, received his instructions for his design, from the spirit world who also informed him that he was a purple princess from a planet called play date play pieties that sounds better. And you know, your world, if you just want to like give me random information, like I’m also a purple princess. I’d totally be okay with that
Speaker 3 00:53:13 Because you’re purple. Every time I look at you because you have the plant light in your room, so you’re always a purple princess. And your name literally means princess
Speaker 4 00:53:23 Compact plant slash party light. What,
Speaker 1 00:53:27 What,
Speaker 0 00:53:31 Yeah. Also, uh, when you were saying that about William O’Neill and George Mueller, I’m like what a cute sit-com that would be, could you imagine like the energy of Reba, but it’s like some dude who’s like receiving messages from the spirit world about how to make a spirit box and like that’s the sitcom and like the antics that they get up to it’s like Reba and van. Imagine if, I mean, Riva was giving van directions from the spirit world. That’s
Speaker 4 00:54:02 I mean, I also think about like, we’ve talked about it before. We’re like, I wish somebody would do a sitcom from like the view of the ghosts. Like, okay, this lady just walked in here, you know, I just really, I feel like it would be super fun to move her pen every 30 seconds and just, you know, see how she reacts. I don’t know. I’m a spirit I have like all the time in the world kill, maybe I’ll shut off the light occasionally, you know, give some parts, you know?
Speaker 0 00:54:34 Yeah, no, if I was, if I was a ghost, that would be my prime. That’d be my prime directive is to fuck with people because what else are you going to get up to? But also how funny would it be if there was like a ghost show that was like, sort of like America’s got talent or like American idol or suit that you can dance, God, this will have the America in it. And I just realized that
Speaker 1 00:54:58 We’re always looking for talent, always trying to discover
Speaker 0 00:55:01 Things fucking, um, and
Speaker 4 00:55:05 Claim it for our own. Right.
Speaker 0 00:55:07 Um, but yeah, no, like one of those shows, um, I saw a video on Instagram the other day of like the, did I send this to you? I might’ve sent it to you of like the walking dead, like Walker auditions.
Speaker 1 00:55:22 If there was like a talent,
Speaker 0 00:55:25 You know, a talent search for like the best conc like poker guys, you know, when peeves is like coming up and try to fuck with somebody and you have to like do it in a creative way. I would watch that. I would watch that so hard. Oh, what, what, but that’d be a, Oh, your light went out.
Speaker 4 00:55:43 Oh, it’s dead. Nope. It’s not, Hey, maybe there’s just a ghost trying to show me that it’s also haunting my room.
Speaker 0 00:55:53 Great. So like, yeah, it’s trying to be like, um, by the way, I’m the ghost of, nevermind. I’m not going to say it.
Speaker 4 00:56:01 I don’t know. It’s fun. Cool, cool beans.
Speaker 1 00:56:07 It’s probably the deer whose skull you have. Grood
Speaker 4 00:56:15 Actually, I have a few leads on more animal skulls for me to paint. So, you know yeah. Mary’s that,
Speaker 2 00:56:24 You’re like the Gothic Cinderella. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:56:30 Maybe like painting and like, it’s like to them in the ether, it’s like, you’re singing songs to your little Woodland creatures and they’re all dancing around you in a ghostly fashion.
Speaker 4 00:56:39 It’s cool. I’ve just, you know, really decided to embrace the weirdness in 2020 and 2021. Did you read that
Speaker 0 00:56:46 Anyways? So, um, so yeah, so we’re keeping it short this, this time around and uh, and we’ll, uh, we’ll be back next time with two stories or more and have more stories than the stories that we planned to tell each other.
Speaker 4 00:57:02 Well, I mean, like I said, I technically talked about two on accident cause I it’s
Speaker 0 00:57:06 True. So really that was, you know,
Speaker 4 00:57:09 I just took up the whole episode myself and then,
Speaker 0 00:57:12 And I love that. I get to see your beer purple princess face you’re I’m now going to change your name in my phone. This is an official moment from nice swabs to purple princess. No, I don’t like that. So you, okay, so I’ll leave it. I swabs. Okay.
Speaker 4 00:57:28 J K I guess purple princess. I just put my name.
Speaker 2 00:57:33 It’s in their name.
Speaker 0 00:57:35 It’s in there, you’re in there as like Sarah knew or Sarah,
Speaker 4 00:57:41 Sarah knew I’ve had the same stupid number for like, you can thank you father for that one. I know I’m still in his phone as Sarah knew and it’s been like literally 10 years. See, and is it new anymore?
Speaker 0 00:57:57 I swabs for 10 years,
Speaker 4 00:58:03 But uh, yeah. So that’s it for this week’s episode next week, we’ll be back to our unreasonably long episodes, which will be great for everyone. I’m sure. Um, and in the meantime you can follow us on Instagram at wonder lust dot pod or on Twitter. Yeah. App
Speaker 0 00:58:21 Todd wanderlust. Yeah. So if you want to listen to an episode and tweet us about things, whether like we missed something or you found some really interesting, like cool, I will be about that. That I’m like not trying to be like a tweeter unless people tweet me and then I’ll be like, yeah, hi guys, send tweeting.
Speaker 4 00:58:40 Um, we hope you enjoyed this shorter episode, which is more suited to vacuuming or cleaning the house as opposed to road trips. So, um, thank you for joining us and we will, uh, see you next time. See you next
Speaker 0 00:58:52 Time in your domestic bliss.
Speaker 2 00:58:55 .

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